Greg Stafford
09-13-2011, 07:02 AM
Perhaps I can clarify
It appears you have mistaken Army Intensity and Unit Intensity
Quote
How did you get BI down to low single figures by round 2? This sounds like you were doing something wrong to me.
You may be right about that. Here's what I did (mind you I'm using the as-yet unpublished rule tweaks that are found throughout various threads in this forum);
I will try to consolidate them, and bold face new terms used int his, but which should be self-explanatory in context
FIRST CHARGE: Default Battle Intensity 20 + Starting Conditions: -5 Defending Homeland and -5 Better troops on Uther's side, Battle Events: -2 = Opening Battle Intensity: 8 + Terrain: 0 + Battle Zone: 5 + Unit Cohesion: -20 = First Charge Intensity of -7.
First Charge Intensity =
20 + (Starting Conditions -10) + (Random Events -2) = Army Intensity of 8
then you follow with
(Size Modifier [former "battle size score"] +5) + (Battle Zone +5) + (Unit Cohesion -20) = -2 Unit Intensity this Round
(As I understand it in the "new" rules there is no Battle Size modifier for a Medium Battle, and at any rate it gets applied to the Unit Intensity so that modifier plays no role in this Battle).
not correct, but see here and below
Size Modifiers
Huge +10
Large +10
Medium +5
Others 0
Uther's won the First Charge Bonus and Elad's Unit was charging Warriors Frothing with Hate. Brand got his Passion,
I presume that he had a Hate Saxons passion, which is 16 or greater
If so, then yes he should make the roll
If not, he can wait
though of course, he can try anytime
but his Buddy Knight's didn't try this time. The Saxons DID get their Passion bonus.
Ooooh, killer GM tactic. Really
I NEVER give passion bonuses to the enemy in the early battles (or meless, actually), and when everyone knows how it goes
for special purposes
The victory result was -1 after a Loss.
Presumably from the Win, "more wins than losses" for the unit
One of the Battle Buddies received a crit from the Frothing Warriors—delivered a Mortal Wound, with exactly is hit points. Those bastards with the Great Spears are tough!
Yep
then next ROUND 2:
Last Round final Intensity: 7 + random Battle Event: -3. Army/Battle Intensity 4.
Size modifier = +5 + Battle Zone +10 = Unit Intensity 19.
Elad didn't make win
[/quote]
uh oh
I presume that means "Unit Commander Failure"
the Unit Roll, and the Saxons critted,
Mother of God! In the first battle? Maybe I ought to stop boasting about being such a killer GM!! ;)
OK, let me say something plainly here if it is not in the rule book
When learning and teaching the battle system the first times, preplan/fudge the enemy rolls so the PCs can win
when you know it, then go random and deadly
so Elad had to Stand Fast and be attacked by TWO Screaming Warrior units.
Actually, he would Stand Versus Two, since he is attacked by two units
I like to use two different units, and in early games just choose a fun enemy
He ended up with a Loss, had to Recoil 1 and was Disordered. Sonofa...
stop
that's the error there
He lost the Unit Commander Roll, and the results are that he has to choose from the bunch of lousy choices
The Unit Results is what determines whether they are pushed back or not, etc.
So, by my reading of the errata that Greg's posted for the Automatic Actions (When Army Intensity is 10 or less at the start of two consecutive rounds,
The First Charge does not count, so 3 rounds is the shortest possible battle fought
the enemy army signals a general retreat at the start of the second round. Enemy unit maneuver is Withdraw, Player units may Follow.) The Saxons should have started a general retreat in this round. Is that right? (Because in Round 1 the BI was 8 and in Round 2 it was 7).
yes they should have signaled such and withdrawn
ROUND 3: Unfortunately, I did not have these errata handy, so Elad next tried a Withdraw in next,
going for another charge. He lost this roll as well,
the round should have followed the same sequence
calculate Unit Itensity
Unit Leader Opposed Battle Roll
Unit Results
and the Howling Warriors won again — Bran got a Partial Success and took 9 HP and one of the Buddy Knights fumbled. Still the Final Battle Intensity was an 8.
Give Bran a Hate Howling Warriors passion, oh say +1d6 to his Hate Saxons :)
ROUND 4: I realized my mistake with not having the Saxons retreat so I decided to do it now. Elad's Unit decided to Pursue,
Elad must've taken a blow to the head,or gotten a Greedy check ;)
with wounds, such losses, it is better to wait and let them go
tactical error on the part of the Bran
instead of charge in Round 4. They had to fight 2 foes at 1/2 strength. They rolled poorly and Brand took 16 points and a major wound from the Badder Berserkers who do 8d6 (8d6! Seriously?) with the "Great Weapon".
Yep, good ol' Saxon 6d6+bonus 2d6
This reminds me of another question: Are those Berserker "Great Weapons" great enough to nullify the First Charge Bonus, as per "Great Spear"? I rolled them in the First Charge, but didn't know the answer to this, so I rolled again until I got something other than a Saxon with a "Great Weapon".
Up to you
but avoid using these guys at all in the early battles
So Bran's at 2HP, Knocked down, and unconscious. His Squire tries to roll Passion and fails. Then First Aid and fails. Brand is left with 2 HP as the Saxons retreat. We roll for ATT modifier and she rolls APP again. Startlingly, we have an exact repeat of the previous "nightmare" bout! Only Buddy Knight #1 died instead of Buddy Knight #2.
skip all the squire stuff
GM says, "you wake after the battle. You hurt bad, but will live."
Thank you all for your continued patience as I try to master this. Getting a little frustrated by the complexity. Don't know how you guys remember all this stuff—or play often enough to remember all of the details. I guess it helps when you have 3-4 people around the table who are pitching in. Gonna have to make a process sheet for this, I guess. I downloaded one from somewhere, but I can see ways to add value to it, for me at least.
Post it
this is a neverending process
Oh—one other question: GPC does not list a "defending homeland" modifier for this battle, but it seems appropriate to me, so I granted it in the First Charge. If this is not an appropriate scenario for this modifier, what is?
You got what it takes to be a great GM
It appears you have mistaken Army Intensity and Unit Intensity
Quote
How did you get BI down to low single figures by round 2? This sounds like you were doing something wrong to me.
You may be right about that. Here's what I did (mind you I'm using the as-yet unpublished rule tweaks that are found throughout various threads in this forum);
I will try to consolidate them, and bold face new terms used int his, but which should be self-explanatory in context
FIRST CHARGE: Default Battle Intensity 20 + Starting Conditions: -5 Defending Homeland and -5 Better troops on Uther's side, Battle Events: -2 = Opening Battle Intensity: 8 + Terrain: 0 + Battle Zone: 5 + Unit Cohesion: -20 = First Charge Intensity of -7.
First Charge Intensity =
20 + (Starting Conditions -10) + (Random Events -2) = Army Intensity of 8
then you follow with
(Size Modifier [former "battle size score"] +5) + (Battle Zone +5) + (Unit Cohesion -20) = -2 Unit Intensity this Round
(As I understand it in the "new" rules there is no Battle Size modifier for a Medium Battle, and at any rate it gets applied to the Unit Intensity so that modifier plays no role in this Battle).
not correct, but see here and below
Size Modifiers
Huge +10
Large +10
Medium +5
Others 0
Uther's won the First Charge Bonus and Elad's Unit was charging Warriors Frothing with Hate. Brand got his Passion,
I presume that he had a Hate Saxons passion, which is 16 or greater
If so, then yes he should make the roll
If not, he can wait
though of course, he can try anytime
but his Buddy Knight's didn't try this time. The Saxons DID get their Passion bonus.
Ooooh, killer GM tactic. Really
I NEVER give passion bonuses to the enemy in the early battles (or meless, actually), and when everyone knows how it goes
for special purposes
The victory result was -1 after a Loss.
Presumably from the Win, "more wins than losses" for the unit
One of the Battle Buddies received a crit from the Frothing Warriors—delivered a Mortal Wound, with exactly is hit points. Those bastards with the Great Spears are tough!
Yep
then next ROUND 2:
Last Round final Intensity: 7 + random Battle Event: -3. Army/Battle Intensity 4.
Size modifier = +5 + Battle Zone +10 = Unit Intensity 19.
Elad didn't make win
[/quote]
uh oh
I presume that means "Unit Commander Failure"
the Unit Roll, and the Saxons critted,
Mother of God! In the first battle? Maybe I ought to stop boasting about being such a killer GM!! ;)
OK, let me say something plainly here if it is not in the rule book
When learning and teaching the battle system the first times, preplan/fudge the enemy rolls so the PCs can win
when you know it, then go random and deadly
so Elad had to Stand Fast and be attacked by TWO Screaming Warrior units.
Actually, he would Stand Versus Two, since he is attacked by two units
I like to use two different units, and in early games just choose a fun enemy
He ended up with a Loss, had to Recoil 1 and was Disordered. Sonofa...
stop
that's the error there
He lost the Unit Commander Roll, and the results are that he has to choose from the bunch of lousy choices
The Unit Results is what determines whether they are pushed back or not, etc.
So, by my reading of the errata that Greg's posted for the Automatic Actions (When Army Intensity is 10 or less at the start of two consecutive rounds,
The First Charge does not count, so 3 rounds is the shortest possible battle fought
the enemy army signals a general retreat at the start of the second round. Enemy unit maneuver is Withdraw, Player units may Follow.) The Saxons should have started a general retreat in this round. Is that right? (Because in Round 1 the BI was 8 and in Round 2 it was 7).
yes they should have signaled such and withdrawn
ROUND 3: Unfortunately, I did not have these errata handy, so Elad next tried a Withdraw in next,
going for another charge. He lost this roll as well,
the round should have followed the same sequence
calculate Unit Itensity
Unit Leader Opposed Battle Roll
Unit Results
and the Howling Warriors won again — Bran got a Partial Success and took 9 HP and one of the Buddy Knights fumbled. Still the Final Battle Intensity was an 8.
Give Bran a Hate Howling Warriors passion, oh say +1d6 to his Hate Saxons :)
ROUND 4: I realized my mistake with not having the Saxons retreat so I decided to do it now. Elad's Unit decided to Pursue,
Elad must've taken a blow to the head,or gotten a Greedy check ;)
with wounds, such losses, it is better to wait and let them go
tactical error on the part of the Bran
instead of charge in Round 4. They had to fight 2 foes at 1/2 strength. They rolled poorly and Brand took 16 points and a major wound from the Badder Berserkers who do 8d6 (8d6! Seriously?) with the "Great Weapon".
Yep, good ol' Saxon 6d6+bonus 2d6
This reminds me of another question: Are those Berserker "Great Weapons" great enough to nullify the First Charge Bonus, as per "Great Spear"? I rolled them in the First Charge, but didn't know the answer to this, so I rolled again until I got something other than a Saxon with a "Great Weapon".
Up to you
but avoid using these guys at all in the early battles
So Bran's at 2HP, Knocked down, and unconscious. His Squire tries to roll Passion and fails. Then First Aid and fails. Brand is left with 2 HP as the Saxons retreat. We roll for ATT modifier and she rolls APP again. Startlingly, we have an exact repeat of the previous "nightmare" bout! Only Buddy Knight #1 died instead of Buddy Knight #2.
skip all the squire stuff
GM says, "you wake after the battle. You hurt bad, but will live."
Thank you all for your continued patience as I try to master this. Getting a little frustrated by the complexity. Don't know how you guys remember all this stuff—or play often enough to remember all of the details. I guess it helps when you have 3-4 people around the table who are pitching in. Gonna have to make a process sheet for this, I guess. I downloaded one from somewhere, but I can see ways to add value to it, for me at least.
Post it
this is a neverending process
Oh—one other question: GPC does not list a "defending homeland" modifier for this battle, but it seems appropriate to me, so I granted it in the First Charge. If this is not an appropriate scenario for this modifier, what is?
You got what it takes to be a great GM