I'm a bit confused on the timeline. The action for 487 starts with the Great Sword Feast (which we're told is the Christmas Feast), followed by spring/summer adventures of Lindsey Embassy or Naval Raid.

But wouldn't this particular Christmas Feast necessarily have to occur at Christmas 486? Or does the Christmas Court bleed over into the New Year, so that the Christmas Court of 486 and the Christmas Feast of 487 are different facets of the same experience? Is this Christmas Feast held in Windsor (where Court is held in 486), or does the Court move with the King's Progress and can occur at any castle in the realm? Regardless of the location the timeline in this instance still seems confused.

One final question along these same lines: Where is King Uther's base? Camelot doesn't exist yet, right? Is it Winchester, then? Or is his court completely itinerant? It would be nice to have a schedule of the Royal Progress, much like the Earl's Progress in the core rulebook.

Thanks,


T.

I'm a bit confused on the timeline. The action for 487 starts with the Great Sword Feast (which we're told is the Christmas Feast), followed by spring/summer adventures of Lindsey Embassy or Naval Raid.
One final question along these same lines: Where is King Uther's base? Camelot doesn't exist yet, right? Is it Winchester, then? Or is his court completely itinerant?

100% itinerant
He has recently (in 485) ridded his retinue of most of the justices, who are in Winchester; and the treasurer and his burden, which are in Devizes.


It would be nice to have a schedule of the Royal Progress, much like the Earl's Progress in the core rulebook.

Sure would! :)
It's in the Book of Uther Pendragon that I am working to finish right now.
It's taken me 55 years to get this close, and I am not going to rush it now
so I am getting some hard numbers now, and jiggling things around with little Winter Phase games you can play with your otherwise out-of-play baron and his officers
and finishing the lists of:
a list of royal castles
a list of tenants in chief
a list of the king's unwalled residences
whereupon I will, indeed, determine some routes which might be termed his "regular progress"
I'm sure I will be done with it just in time as your campaign enters Anarchy :)

I'm sure I will be done with it just in time as your campaign enters Anarchy :)


Ah—methinks you have a cruel streak, sir.

T.

I'm a bit confused on the timeline. The action for 487 starts with the Great Sword Feast (which we're told is the Christmas Feast), followed by spring/summer adventures of Lindsey Embassy or Naval Raid.

But wouldn't this particular Christmas Feast necessarily have to occur at Christmas 486? Or does the Christmas Court bleed over into the New Year, so that the Christmas Court of 486 and the Christmas Feast of 487 are different facets of the same experience? Regardless of the location the timeline in this instance still seems confused.

I had the same problem last week when my brush-up before session drew me to this error. (Or at least, this confusing state of affairs.)

I ran it as Christmas 486 and so occurred at the end of Sword Lake. That gave them all of 487 for their Naval Raids.

I'm a bit confused on the timeline. The action for 487 starts with the Great Sword Feast (which we're told is the Christmas Feast), followed by spring/summer adventures of Lindsey Embassy or Naval Raid.


Without looking, I think that it's an example of being a slave to the format, rather than to the order in which something is read.

But wouldn't this particular Christmas Feast necessarily have to occur at Christmas 486? Or does the Christmas Court bleed over into the New Year, so that the Christmas Court of 486 and the Christmas Feast of 487 are different facets of the same experience? Is this Christmas Feast held in Windsor (where Court is held in 486), or does the Court move with the King's Progress and can occur at any castle in the realm? Regardless of the location the timeline in this instance still seems confused.

Now that I'm about to hit 490, an odd thing strikes me - 490 has events that occur at Christmas Court, but explicitly puts them in the 490 entry. But 487 has events for Christmas court which presumably happened at 486. ???

As I already mentioned I ran the Merlin stuff as part of 486 and it worked OK. I dunno if the intent was to put it in the next session for pacing reasons.

Coming up on the Great Sword Feast in a couple of weeks and am glad to see this addressed. I will be running it at Christmas Court 486.

I am definitely interested in being made aware of any other particular trip-ups later in the book! Thanks, all!

it's an example of being a slave to the format, rather than to the order in which something is read.

Ok the problem with the time line is this c.485-496 - Period of Arthur's "twelve battles" during which he gains reputation for invincibility.

Most of Arthur's 12 battles happened before this time during the last adventuring year and they would celebrate each battle that Christmas I suspect Geoffrey of Monmouth lumped all the holidays in too one massive giant Christmas fest remember in England during this time winters were hard and men and animals even if their was a war on would spend the winter in a keep some where or building and continued after march 25th the start of the new year, was march 25th to November 1st end of the fall harvest and the last three months of the year was December to February is why your all confuse because what happens Christmas from 485 goes through all the holidays till march 25th of 486 and why I suspect that Geoffrey lumped all the holiday's I think into one massive Christmas fest so all events form 485 to 486 run together and so on so each battle was one year with one massive battle and a lot of little skirmishes through the other 9 months with the victory feast a massive Christmas feast lasting 3 months, so all 12 battles lasted a period of 12 years including the feasts. I did some research on this a while back that's why the Christmas dates in later books and events are off and seem like they run together, And this is my opinion why their is this problem. So yes the GPC Timeline 486-487 would run together at the Christmas feast, and so would 487 to 488, and so on.

here's a link to http://www.britannia.com/history/arthur/timearth.html you might find it helpful

In the GPC Arthur isn't born until sometime in the 490s.

Ok the problem with the time line is this c.485-496 - Period of Arthur's "twelve battles" during which he gains reputation for invincibility.
*snip*
here's a link to http://www.britannia.com/history/arthur/timearth.html you might find it helpful

Lusus Naturae has put his finger on the problems of your reply
Please use published KAP products to criticize the game
A half dozen or more other speculative historical time lines are on line
None of them were used for KAP

OK Greg Sorry I will try to stick to the published game books from now on. However, I do try for my game to make to make it more historical by using both and seeing which one best fits but from now on i will stick to only game products with that said in the books I have you never put a date for Arthur's birth just here a quick time line form the GK2724, Book of Knights (2000) this and the tables from the fourth edition book, which still does not have the date of Arthur's birth.

The life and times of King Arthur Span 70 tumultuous years, divided into five major phases, each phase has a unique courtly and martail events, fashions and technical devolpments, and adventure themes.

Phase,; Years,; and major events,;

Anarchy; 495 to 510; anarchy period where Interregnum between Uthur to Arthur; Saxon, Pict, and Irish raiders run rampet.
Unification; 510 to 525 Arthur's 12 battles to unify Britain, after Arthur Pulls the sword from the stone and becomes High King; Arthur weds Guinevere; In 514 the round table is formed; Battle of Bardon hill is fought in 518 in which Arthur and his Knights defeats the Saxons; in 521 Arthur builds camalot. To be honest maybe you should put a document of your timeline that you use on your website Greg for us to refrense, Just a suggestion and a request.
Consolidation; 525 to 540; Arthur Conquers Rome (526 to 527) and becomes Emperor of the Roman Empire; Height of Tournaments and Adventures.
Apogee; 540 to 555; Disturbing infighting of the Round Table Knights; Grail apperances and the Grail Quest;
Decline; 555 to 565; Decadance at court, sees Guinevere and Lancealot caught in aldoltry; sees morgan la fey seduce Arthur and bares a son 9 months later; Civil war tears Briation apart; Passing of arthur at Camlann after killing Mordred his son age 10;


I will admit sense I don't have the book The Great Pendragon Campaign, I Should probably have kept quite so again sorry. However, the above time line is what I have used or the last 13 years and it works great in my campaign, I just checked the 5th ed main rule book it does not have the date of Arthur's birth their either, that I can find. But I do like the added history I did not have before especially on Vortigan being more flushed out this time.

Oh, you may and should use any timeline and sources you and your group want to have. Thats completely your business in my opinion. Greg just pointed out, that this cannot be a base of discussion about troubles with HIS campaign book. Which is in fact a great and tremendously detailed timeline.

Yes I know that I was just letting him know what I was using as a bases for my campaign.

in the books I have you never put a date for Arthur's birth just here a quick time line form the GK2724, Book of Knights (2000) this and the tables from the fourth edition book, which still does not have the date of Arthur's birth.


My 4th Edition book does give Arthur's birth as being in 493 (on his character sheet at the back of the book). The Great Pendragon Campaign (which I can really recommend) bumps that forwards a year to 492 but that's not much of a change. Certainly since the 4th Edition the date of his birth has been set and seems to have remained pretty constant.

Ok Ya I never noticed it before but then I hardly use Arthur except as an NPC of Great Importance and most of the player knights who are not Round Table Knights hardly see him except from affair I just noticed the others birthday's too ok I just found something new out today lol Thanks oly for pointing it out. Seriously I never noticed it til now my bad.

I'm a bit confused on the timeline. The action for 487 starts with the Great Sword Feast (which we're told is the Christmas Feast), followed by spring/summer adventures of Lindsey Embassy or Naval Raid.

But wouldn't this particular Christmas Feast necessarily have to occur at Christmas 486? Or does the Christmas Court bleed over into the New Year, so that the Christmas Court of 486 and the Christmas Feast of 487 are different facets of the same experience? Is this Christmas Feast held in Windsor (where Court is held in 486), or does the Court move with the King's Progress and can occur at any castle in the realm? Regardless of the location the timeline in this instance still seems confused.

One final question along these same lines: Where is King Uther's base? Camelot doesn't exist yet, right? Is it Winchester, then? Or is his court completely itinerant? It would be nice to have a schedule of the Royal Progress, much like the Earl's Progress in the core rulebook.

Thanks,

T.


IIRC Christmas court is not one day. It is, in essence, a season of events that spans more than just one day (or 12 days), or even Advent + 12 days.

It is the time to get together, show of one's solid gold codpiece (conspicuous consumption!) and/or wife and/or children and/or harlot and/or horse/falcon/gaming-oratory-play instrument-sing-dance prowess, be in the presence and hopefully make a positive impression) of one's lord (and his lord, if applicable), figure out why the heck King Lot sent his queen to court last year, etc...

Hello every one I just got my copy of the great pendragon campagin I orderd the soft print on demand form noctorunal publishing and greg wow waht a book i can see why it took 40 years to write I love it and love the wonderful detailed it is especially the maps, However you did make a few mistakes on 515 in privious eddtions in 515 Arthur Holds court in London and Gwenavere is holding the first contest to choose her knights for the adventure year these events are held on march 25th Lady's day and leads to King Arthurs Great Easter Tournament this Year irs a reagl he is sponsering this is where the comming of the grey Knight comes in, (Source Tales of Mystic Tournaments (GK2723) the Adventure of the Grey Knight) 2000, also the BLOOD & LUST, Heroic Adventures in King Arthur's Britain (CHA2711) is w2here the Contest for the Queens Knight) it won't be much for me to add these to the exsisting campagin also in the same sorce book (Source Tales of Mystic Tournaments (GK2723) has also the adventure of the tornament of dreams which accours in surgales King Bellions is holding a regal tournament in 516 and has cahallnged all the noble knights of Brition to attend this too was left out). I also realize that perhaps these are not cannon in the currnet campaign but thier some of my favorite adventures to run, As well as the kingdom of the circle of gold from the same book. Which seems to have two kings that Arthur needs to conqueer and doesen't um in the current campagin I wonder why any thoughts?

Other wise it is a veryu empressive book you out did your self this time making an grandous epic campagin to an already Epic Legond I know must not have been an easy task! So I give you Greg an added glory on here for all your hard work.

Now then I would like to also point out that the forest la savge in chapter 3 I belive could doubble as a sherwood forest campagin during the time of Iven Hoe and Robin Hood just make Robin of Loxley the King of Forest! Any thoughts on that one?

I'm a bit confused on the timeline. The action for 487 starts with the Great Sword Feast (which we're told is the Christmas Feast), followed by spring/summer adventures of Lindsey Embassy or Naval Raid.

But wouldn't this particular Christmas Feast necessarily have to occur at Christmas 486? Or does the Christmas Court bleed over into the New Year, so that the Christmas Court of 486 and the Christmas Feast of 487 are different facets of the same experience? Is this Christmas Feast held in Windsor (where Court is held in 486), or does the Court move with the King's Progress and can occur at any castle in the realm? Regardless of the location the timeline in this instance still seems confused.

One final question along these same lines: Where is King Uther's base? Camelot doesn't exist yet, right? Is it Winchester, then? Or is his court completely itinerant? It would be nice to have a schedule of the Royal Progress, much like the Earl's Progress in the core rulebook.

Thanks,


T.


Sorry for bumping this thread, but I'd just like to add my 2 cents. Like others have stated here, the events of The Great Sword Feast from 487 are indeed part of the Winter Court of 486. Greg says that this is because the entries are "victims of the format". In fact this confusion could have easily been avoided. A sentence or two during the Winter Court of 486 could have pointed the GM to the fact that The Great Sword Feast should be played out as a continuation of that same Winter in 486. It is also confusing that the entry for 486 shows what's happening at the Winter Court of both Roderick and Uther, when it seems implied (if I remember correctly) that Roderick is actually present at the Winter Court of Uther (unless they both hold courts are different time points in the same Winter, which also makes sense). So the way to run this properly is as follows:

1) run the Winter Phase for 486 as normaly at the end of the scenario for that year (although some people run the Winter Phases from previous years as the first thing in a new session but this doesn't affect the sequence in any way).

2) the next gameplay session play The Great Sword Feast and remind players that this is still during the same Winter Court as the year before at Uther's. Let the players decide what they do for the Summer (Raids scenario, etc).

3) run the Pentecost court at Uther's for that year as usual (that is, before the Summer Adventures begin, which is the usual way for GPC; the PKs will hear rumors about the political situation, the planing of Raids, etc, as usual, except that this time they already know about it since the decisions were made in theit presence at Winter Court)

4) run the Adventures in Summer as usual.

There is of course some back and forth between the different events for that year as you can see from above and this could definetely have been better arranged and clarified in that year's entry, but it all makes sense in the light of what I posted above. Hope this helps future GMs with the same doubts about how to run this scenario.

Some great advice there, Gorgon. I wish I'd had it when I was cutting my PENDRAGON teeth way back when. Hopefully it will help others.


Best,


T.