How do I go about restoring a point of honor, once lost? In our campaign, the solo PK lost a point of honor when he balked at helping the old shepherd at Sword Lake (you know the one). He gained a point of Cowardice on the spot and lost a point of Honor when it became publicly known. That same PK just defeated the Water Leapers and in so doing secured the loyalty of King Cadwy. Is this enough to erase the stain of the PKs earlier failure? Should I handle this with GM fiat, or do we have to do a check or something against the Honor passion during the Winter Phase?

Thanks in advance,


T.

A player can raise Honor with bonus points from Glory, with annual training (remember, you can take +1 to any Passion), with a critical roll for Inspiration, and with a successful experience check. You can also award one by GM fiat, but a one-point loss isn't much unless the knight's Honor is in single digits.

First of all, I would not have lowered honor and given a check on Cowardice for not helping some smelly peasant. Especially not pre-Arthurian days. Unless of course the knight accepted the 'quest' to help the peasant and then ran away seeing the size of the giant; then it would be justified IMHO.

If the knight is singled out for praise by the King before the court, then I could see rewarding the knight with a check to Honor, or even giving him that lost Honor back outright (especially since I did not agree with the knight losing it in the first place :P ).

Undead Trout brings up one thing that irks me about the Honor system. It is that the less Honorable knights (low Honor) will have to ACT more honorable in order to avoid losing honor they can ill afford to lose. For instance, we had a situation in our campaign where the knights went against their sworn oath (-3 Honor), and the Honor 9 knight was agonizing way more about it than the Honor 14 knight. This feels wrong to me.

First of all, I would not have lowered honor and given a check on Cowardice for not helping some smelly peasant. Especially not pre-Arthurian days. Unless of course the knight accepted the 'quest' to help the peasant and then ran away seeing the size of the giant; then it would be justified IMHO.

It's worse than that. He basically ran away when seeing the size of the goat! Since he was the only member of his patrol to advance up the hill, the others did not press the matter. Sir Elad was too old and tired, Sir Leo seemed preoccupied with some weighty matter, Sir Bar is, by reputation, a "go along with the others" kinda guy, Sir Lycus was scornful of helping a peasant with a goat and the last member of the patrol, Sir Sulius, a fresh-faced and newly dubbed knight on his first patrol, also followed everyone else's lead — at least that's how I later justified the entire patrol of noble knights turning a blind eye to this poor old shepherd. I later realized that what I should have done, was ask the PK (16 Valor) to make a Cowardly roll, and, failing that a Valorous roll, which he almost certainly would have passed and been made to continue (or lose a point of Valor on the spot). Since I'm still pretty green with Pendragon, I blew it and basically panicked when the PK didn't take the hook in a very pivotal adventure.

Later the PK and the other members of his patrol learned that another patrol, passing by that same way, encountered the same shepherd and helped Merlin retrieve Excalibur. This knight was feted at the Great Sword Feast along with his companions, while my PK and his fellows watched aghast.

But the loss of Honor wasn't immediate. It wasn't until word got out about my PK's failure that he lost face with the court—along with the other knights of his patrol. they all lost a point of honor! I figured I'd roll all of this into the narrative and teach my wife a good lesson to boot!


If the knight is singled out for praise by the King before the court, then I could see rewarding the knight with a check to Honor, or even giving him that lost Honor back outright (especially since I did not agree with the knight losing it in the first place :P )..

Upon reporting back after the slaying of the Water Leapers, the PK crated on an Orate to the King's court. Since he basically secured King Cadwy's allegiance, AND he crated in the telling of the hair-raising tale of fighting the water leapers, I'm gonna restore the lost Honor automatically, without having the PK spend any advancement currency in the Winter Phase. This also atones for my poor handling in the first place, back with the old shepherd and resets the Honor. Now my wife pretty much gets that you don't shirk from the call to Glory!

Thanks, Morien!


T.

A player can raise Honor with bonus points from Glory, with annual training (remember, you can take +1 to any Passion), with a critical roll for Inspiration, and with a successful experience check. You can also award one by GM fiat, but a one-point loss isn't much unless the knight's Honor is in single digits.


Ah, yes I've remembered that now. I was kinda thrown because there's a paragraph in KPA under the header of "Reducing Passion" that basically states that Passion, one generated can only be decreased. That didn't seem right to me. But, of course, doing the Winter Phase...


Thanks!


M.

I later realized that what I should have done, was ask the PK (16 Valor) to make a Cowardly roll, and, failing that a Valorous roll, which he almost certainly would have passed and been made to continue (or lose a point of Valor on the spot). Since I'm still pretty green with Pendragon, I blew it and basically panicked when the PK didn't take the hook in a very pivotal adventure.

I'd have done that if his Valour was 16+ (and was still 16 after any valour penalty imposed by the monster), otherwise I'd have let him run. If the creature imposes a valour penalty, knights can make a prudent roll first. If they succeed, they can choose to withdraw without honour or cowardly checks. (This rule is hidden somewhere in the rulebook, in KAP 5 it's in the monster section.)

Undead Trout brings up one thing that irks me about the Honor system. It is that the less Honorable knights (low Honor) will have to ACT more honorable in order to avoid losing honor they can ill afford to lose. For instance, we had a situation in our campaign where the knights went against their sworn oath (-3 Honor), and the Honor 9 knight was agonizing way more about it than the Honor 14 knight. This feels wrong to me.


That's interesting. My experience has always been: players with mediocre honour levels don't really care if it goes down (util it is getting close to 4!), while players with higher honour (like your 14, or god forbid, 16+) agonise over even tiny 1 point losses. If I hit them with a 3 point loss, I inwardly prepare for the crybaby caterwauling :)

But it's a good point; should an honour 9 character suffer the same loss as an honour 14 character, especially when the penalty of dropping below 5 is so significant?

I'd have done that if his Valour was 16+ (and was still 16 after any valour penalty imposed by the monster), otherwise I'd have let him run.

Yep, that was the case—although I don't know off-hand if a small giant has such a penalty.


Thanks!


T.

I'm pretty sure a small giant has a zero modifier.

That's interesting. My experience has always been: players with mediocre honour levels don't really care if it goes down (util it is getting close to 4!), while players with higher honour (like your 14, or god forbid, 16+) agonise over even tiny 1 point losses. If I hit them with a 3 point loss, I inwardly prepare for the crybaby caterwauling :)

But it's a good point; should an honour 9 character suffer the same loss as an honour 14 character, especially when the penalty of dropping below 5 is so significant?


There is a switch that happens around 14, 15 and definitely at 16+. But lets say between 11 - 13, players are not that troubled by Honor since they never expect rolling it, while guys with single digits Honor start getting Paranoid about dropping to Dishonor.

I would be tempted to go with some kind of a threshold system... if your Honor is low enough, you can do some minor dishonorable stuff without penalty, and have a decreased penalty for bigger stuff. Not sure how to do this. Perhaps something like if your Honor is less than 10, roll your Honor and if you FAIL, reduce the Honor Penalty by one.

I have quite an elegant house rule for proportional honour losses. It's over here (http://nocturnal-media.com/forum/index.php?topic=1425.0).