Guys,

Imagine being able to drill down on just about any knight in Logres and find his coat of arms. Imagine have a deck of virtual cards for every knight and being able to display one at random, or search for one. Impossible? Not if enough of us jump in.

Here's something I'm playing with. Wanna help me build it out? If you want editing privileges, just let me know. We just have to figure out how to not step on each other.

https://www.mindmeister.com/147768537/heraldry-in-the-time-of-uther-pendragon

This is just a test. I know most of the devices aren't "real". I just wanted to show the concept.

I'm suggesting a canonical catalog—that every player could adapt to his own campaign if he wanted to. I don't know where all the traps are yet. i'm sure there will be some. But consider this a brainstorm.


Best,


T.

Nice, but I rather have this linked with a map, so that I can even where these people are located...

fg,
Thijs

Nice, but I rather have this linked with a map, so that I can even where these people are located...

That would be awesome, I'm not sure how we could pull that off, since this model is infinitely scalable (capable of showing 2000 knight for example), and a map that scalable would present it's own challenges. How would you determine (and show) the boundaries for all of the manors, for example? But we can use this to build the database while we figure it out!

Once we have the database built, I can also export to numerous different formats, like an RTF, PDF, Word, etc. This is just a visual way or organizing the knights while we identify their vassal relationships, heralds, blazons, names, etc. Once this file is sufficiently advanced, people can export the content and import into their own MindMeister map (free with basic account) and change critical manors to their own PKs.

Best,


T.

How would you determine (and show) the boundaries for all of the manors, for example? But we can use this to build the database while we figure it out!

Your ambition is awesome
I am skeptical of it coming to full blossom, but rather than stand int he way may I ask
is this something that can be integrated into our KAP wiki

Greg, I'm actually hoping for some guidance from you. Particularly at the macro level—the barons, earls and dukes of Logres. Then I'll need some help understanding the organization of the bannerets and manors under them—Salisbury only. I can handle the details over time—a lot of time—but I need to understand very specifically how the kingdom is organized starting from the top.

I can give you access to this and you can literally go in and drag 'n' drop things around, add new characters, etc.

I definitely can't do this on my own, but the Web provides very powerful but simple-to-use tools where we can all collaborate easily.

It can't be integrated in to the Wiki, per se, but a link could certainly be provided. It would be easy to maintain this indefinitely, as long as the people who make the tool stay in business, that is. With over a million subscribers, there's hopefully not to much danger of them going away any time soon. Even then, I'd have ample time to capture all of our hard work in another format (you can export to 5 or 7 different document types).

This is not impossible. If people can map the human genome we sure as hell can map the knights and lords of Logres. We'll just start with Salisbury and go from there. Aren't there, like, 2000 knights in Uther's time? My family tree on Ancestry.com has more entries than that, and so does my wife's. In each case that's only two people working on it in their very-spare time. What is ten of us were working on this? It's totally doable.

Check out how I've added notes to some of the entries. Rollover the little note icon in the lower right corner of Rydychan, for example. Very, very cool.

Best,


T.

Greg, I'm actually hoping for some guidance from you. Particularly at the macro level—the barons, earls and dukes of Logres. Then I'll need some help understanding the organization of the bannerets and manors under them—Salisbury only. I can handle the details over time—a lot of time—but I need to understand very specifically how the kingdom is organized starting from the top.

I am working daily on the Books of UTHER, WARLORDS and ESTATE will will do just that.
There is no point in publishing half finished data
and I am working as fast as I can :)

For myself, I have no interest in determining ever knight in Logres or Britain, nor in even naming all of the barons and their possessions. Such fossilization is destructive to creative gamemastering--it removes the gamemaster from the creation of his game far too much for me to be comfortable with



It can't be integrated in to the Wiki, per se, but a link could certainly be provided.

I find that unfortunate
I would like to see a single huge resource for the game world
For info sake:
in WARLORDS I am untra-detailing only one place: the holding of the Count of Salisbury, and the other hundreds in the county.
The Major Lords are given a large treatment
ESTATE will give sufficient play detail for several estates too

Nice, but I rather have this linked with a map, so that I can even where these people are located...

That would be awesome, I'm not sure how we could pull that off, since this model is infinitely scalable (capable of showing 2000 knight for example), and a map that scalable would present it's own challenges.


Google Maps..



How would you determine (and show) the boundaries for all of the manors, for example? But we can use this to build the database while we figure it out!


Boundaries are always vague, general locations of manors (color-coded depending on banneret/baron) should be enough..

fg,
Thijs

Boundaries are always vague, general locations of manors (color-coded depending on banneret/baron) should be enough..


Combing through http://www.british-history.ac.uk/ will reveal the actual boundaries of the villages
well, actually the parishes, but close enough for me
the maps are about 500 years after, but suffice for my purposes

Also, don't forget the hundreds!
Search for "hundreds of England" as Images
I can't quite copy the actual url but you can see the map there

Also, don't forget the hundreds!
Search for "hundreds of England" as Images
I can't quite copy the actual url but you can see the map there

Google gives different search results for different people... I get only hunderds of the east..

Can you try a more detailed URL?

fg,
Thijs

For myself, I have no interest in determining ever knight in Logres or Britain, nor in even naming all of the barons and their possessions. Such fossilization is destructive to creative gamemastering--it removes the gamemaster from the creation of his game far too much for me to be comfortable with

I was actually mainly just interested in their name, house and coat of arms. I mean, one could put as much detail behind each one of these one wanted, but I find rolling for just these few items like this is a great way to get the creative juices (God, I loathe that particular turn of phrase). Too, if I don't have to invent this stuff on the spot, it frees me up to focus on more interesting things, like plot and character. If you're going to have a Heraldry skill, seems to me like it would be fun to have a database of actual shields that you could flash to the players (on an iPhone or iPad) for example. Once I know a knight's name, his House and his coat of arms, I have a springboard for all kinds of interesting development, as needed.

Whether you're meeting knights on the road, at a muster, at a tourney, or on the field of battle it seems this could be a very useful framework.

In addition, I'm already having a challenge keeping up with all the NPC knights. Who's the lord of what manor, and where is it again? I'm getting to the point where I can forget that the PCs might have a ready ally nearby, or here's a place they may want to give a wide berth, etc., etc.

This all started with me wanting a visual representation of the feudal order in Logres—the big guys. It helps me to see it, 'cause I'm a visual person. But then I figured, it doesn't have to stop there. With the tools and resources available today it's totally feasible to be able to list every knight in the kingdom. Of course, people can adapt and adopt to their campaign as needed. Then whenever a players asks, "Who lives in yon castle?" I'll actually have an answer.

By tonight I'll have a list of 1000+ authentic Cymric names, with variants, pronunciations, and meanings (in some cases). I'll be able to give every knight on the chart so far a name and a manor. I'm going to post the names to a Google doc and share them with you all. Need a knight name quick? Just roll d1000. Done.

I recognize that this is not for everyone. On the other hand, if I just put in a supreme effort for a few weeks, I can have a valuable resource that I can use for years.


T.

In addition, I'm already having a challenge keeping up with all the NPC knights. Who's the lord of what manor, and where is it again? I'm getting to the point where I can forget that the PCs might have a ready ally nearby, or here's a place they may want to give a wide berth, etc., etc.

Control this by making a couple of places to be where all the npcs seem to come from
captives and so on: I don't even keep track

Google Maps..

I saw that Google just released a forum or something for people that map their historical maps to Google Earth. But I don't know how to go about getting that done. There is an awesome series of hand drawn survey maps from the early 19th century that would be incredible to map to Google Earth. Don't have a clue how to go about getting that done, though.


Best,



T.

I find that unfortunate
I would like to see a single huge resource for the game world


What I should have said here is that yes, the information can be included in the Wiki once it's all worked out—only not in this specific graphical format, with connecting lines showing the feudal relationships, etc.. The content can certainly be included in an encyclopedic format, however. You just won't be able to take it all in at a glance and zoom in on certain parts of the map, etc. This functionality is provided in the Mind Meister environment.

T.

Okay, so I figured out how to load a 19th century ordnance survey map on to Google Earth. Very, very cool. You can slide the transparency of the old map over the current satellite view. However, it just seems to read the OS map graphic from my local drive. So I don't know how to make that available to all. Plus, I don't know if I can put another layer on top of that to show manor houses and so forth. Will continue to play with it. So close...

But even if i'm able to figure this out, I won't be able to show the connecting lines illustrating the vassal relationships, etc. No one tool will provide everything, I think.


T.

Okay, so I figured out how to load a 19th century ordnance survey map on to Google Earth. Very, very cool. You can slide the transparency of the old map over the current satellite view. However, it just seems to read the OS map graphic from my local drive.

By right click -properties, replace the link to your hard-disk-file to a file available on line.

fg,
Thijs

By right click -properties, replace the link to your hard-disk-file to a file available on line.

Ah, yes, of course. I'll have to dust off my Flickr account, I guess.


Thanks,


T.

Can you try a more detailed URL?


This is the one that brings me there

http://www.hpss.geog.cam.ac.uk/research/projects/occupations/hundredmapping/hundreds.html

This is the one that brings me there

"Wapentake?!" What the hell is a wapentake? Always a joy to encounter a new word.


T.

If you're going to have a Heraldry skill, seems to me like it would be fun to have a database of actual shields that you could flash to the players (on an iPhone or iPad) for example. Once I know a knight's name, his House and his coat of arms, I have a springboard for all kinds of interesting development, as needed.



Do you have a collection of.png (or .jpg) of all those shields?
If so, contact me, got little idea.

fg,
Thijs

"Wapentake?!" What the hell is a wapentake? Always a joy to encounter a new word.


It was the Danelaw equivalent of a Saxon hundred - a local assembly. Literally it means 'weapon take' - you came with your weapons to demonstrate that you were enfranchised (also useful if things became heated).

Regards
Luke

D@mn! Beaten to it. ;D

Just to add, it's unclear whether a wapentake was measured by area or by number of people(households? Fighting men?) but a wapentake was usually larger in size than a hundred, maybe covering the area previously covered by two or three hundreds.

GR

Do you have a collection of.png (or .jpg) of all those shields?
If so, contact me, got little idea.


I have all the ones on my chart and I can make as many as I want. It's easy. I've made abut 45 so far. What have you got in mind?


T.

Do you have a collection of.png (or .jpg) of all those shields?
If so, contact me, got little idea.


I have all the ones on my chart and I can make as many as I want. It's easy. I've made abut 45 so far. What have you got in mind?


T.


I guess I am a little compulsive with too much time on my hands, I've made about 350. Most made with the Coat of Arms design studio, whose page seems to be offline right now. The rest I have made with Photoshop and Paintshop Pro.

Care to share?


M.

Care to share?


In fact, care to share it online on the KAP site?

Sure I will share them. I can't take credit for any artistic ability with them. Please don't ask me to resize them though. :) Just send me the details on where and how big a zip file.

P

Sure I will share them. I can't take credit for any artistic ability with them. Please don't ask me to resize them though. :) Just send me the details on where and how big a zip file.


Do you have a DropBox account? If not, they're free and easy to set up, but contact me privately before doing so, because I can get a "spiff" for referring you.

I want to standardize the appearance of these things, but let me worry about that.


Thanks,


T.

No me, me, please use my referral, I need the extra space for my Pendragon maps... :)
http://db.tt/O0reJ5d

fg,
Thijs

More added to the Drop Box. The total is now 30 from the French list. I need to fix Armond though....