I hope I'm not overwhelming this forum with questions! I am sorry if that is the case!

Lately I have had this idea that keeps popping up (not a very unusual idea, just not one I have ever played out in any game):

I'd want to have a rival group of NPC squires (and later knights) to the player group that in the long run serves to thicken the flow of narrative. I mean the kind of shadowing/mirroring NPC group that stems from other Salisbury manors as well. But these guys are headed by a kind of bad-guy-squire (sour, dour, nose in the air, aloof) leader type who've shown disdain to the player characters from the very start (bad childhood memories).

He and his compadres should also be knighted at the same time as the PKs. Then follow them through the Uther/Anarchy eras and beyond, through into new generations, so the fathers can say "Yes, that family has been a thorn in our sides for a long time".

My questions is: has anyone else made use of this in their campaign(s) and how? Also, new/old ideas are always welcome!

Not as such. But I did use the Uther and Anarchy era for a lot of local intrigue and conflict, creating enmities that reverberated until the last years of PGC. It's a great idea, that all I can say.

Not as such. But I did use the Uther and Anarchy era for a lot of local intrigue and conflict, creating enmities that reverberated until the last years of PGC. It's a great idea, that all I can say.


Sounds good. Would've paid hard insect cash to be a fly on the wall through those intrigue playouts.

The ideal would be that some early interaction- or communication error, initially meant as something helpful, turned bad by pure chance. Then it festers and gets ultra-bad as the years go by (like the story in the excellent non-KAP era movie "The Duellists" with Keith Carradine and Harvey Keitel, recommended.).

I am working on a similar idea for my current game, but the rival knights are from Silchester so it's just an extension of the Salisbury/Silchester rivalry.

Simon Hibbs

I am working on a similar idea for my current game, but the rival knights are from Silchester so it's just an extension of the Salisbury/Silchester rivalry.

Simon Hibbs


Aha! Now that definately sounds interesting. Could you describe a little more in words just how you've planned this?

I wouldn't say it's all that well planned. We'll see how it goes.

During my lunch break just now I wrote up Sir Priapus, one of Ulfius' sons. I have no idea if Ulfius has canon sons and can't remember if there's anything in GPC about that but never mind. This is how it's going to be in my game, maybe he's 'extra'.

I'm going to use the Agravain encounter at the beginning of The Grey Knight, but with Priapus instead. He has a sidekick Sir Cassianus. Priapus is the smooth, conniving, nasty type while Cassianus is the muscle.

Not a very original setup, but tried and tested by authors down the ages. I'll likely add further sidekicks and allies for them as the game progresses, but this is the nucleus. They'll be in many of the same battles as the PCs and maybe I'll have them complete some of the many Pendragon scenarios I have that I won't use for the PCs in the background, sometimes successfully, sometimes disastrously.

Thank you for sharing Simonh! It sounds as it's something I'd like to know how it goes in the future. And good names also! Priapus and Cassianus, have you taken those names yourself for them? Good names always adds to the overall feeling IMO.

The idea with those kind of NPCs participating in battles and other famous events through the the years is exactly what I want myself in the GPC campaign.

During my lunch break just now I wrote up Sir Priapus, one of Ulfius' sons. I have no idea if Ulfius has canon sons and can't remember if there's anything in GPC about that but never mind.


Ulfius does have sons. They lead a rebellion against Arthur in the late 520s and come to a bad end. My interpretation is that they are prominent exemplars of the old way (ie Uther time) way of doing things and they can't adjust to the new, chivalric style.

Regards
Luke

During my lunch break just now I wrote up Sir Priapus, one of Ulfius' sons. I have no idea if Ulfius has canon sons and can't remember if there's anything in GPC about that but never mind.


Ulfius does have sons. They lead a rebellion against Arthur in the late 520s and come to a bad end. My interpretation is that they are prominent exemplars of the old way (ie Uther time) way of doing things and they can't adjust to the new, chivalric style.

Regards
Luke


They make for some very useful antagonists then! Sounds good.

Priapus and Cassianus, have you taken those names yourself for them? Good names always to the overall feeling IMO.


I tend to go for obscure jokey names.

Priapus is so named because he's a complete tool.

Cassianus got that name by chance, it was originally going to be for a very different NPC. I changed plans, but already had a character sheet with that name on it. Just being lazy.

I'm a huge fan of the Flashman novels, so I might have Priapus incorporate some of his, er, qualities.

Simon Hibbs

I have not used a mirror to the PK party, but have set up some intrigue that may affect the PKs.

It is came to me when I saw Krijger's map of the bannerets. I have made Lady Adwen (daughter of Bles) the heir of the manors around Melksham (north east). I also made the bastard brother of Bles the castellan of Devizes (the castle and several manors nearby were granted to him because of acts of valor and defense for Earl Reginald). He is of course after the Lady her manors as well. He has made himself steward of her bannerety while she is unmarried. Several of the PKs family is related to knights either in service of the Lady or the Castellan. How it unfolds I have not decided, but it will have an effect on the campaign.

I have not used a mirror to the PK party, but have set up some intrigue that may affect the PKs.

It is came to me when I saw Krijger's map of the bannerets. I have made Lady Adwen (daughter of Bles) the heir of the manors around Melksham (north east). I also made the bastard brother of Bles the castellan of Devizes (the castle and several manors nearby were granted to him because of acts of valor and defense for Earl Reginald). He is of course after the Lady her manors as well. He has made himself steward of her bannerety while she is unmarried. Several of the PKs family is related to knights either in service of the Lady or the Castellan. How it unfolds I have not decided, but it will have an effect on the campaign.


That kind of web of kin and kindred, how do you keep track of it all, excel files? And do the players immerse themselves in this genealogy?

I use a online genealogy program (I use the one from http://www.myheritage.nl/, but you can find others at http://www.techsupportalert.com/best-free-genealogy-family-tree-software.htm#Gramps ) It helps me get a grip on the relations. Since one PK had three sisters he married of to the other PK the group now has strong family ties.

We just started the campaign so we are only at 486 atm. But most players liked the background of their family. They like the depth it brings to their own character, who was their father, their grandfathers, who are their uncles and aunts, etc. And with the GPC you are not so much playing a single character as well as a family.

I am not sure if the program supports me in the future, but until now I find it useful. I had one of the characters remotely related to the Earl. He is a grandnephew of a sister-in-law of Earl Roderick (so 7 steps removed). Because of their marriages they all are now related to the Earl.

There are also some excel files floating around the web, but I found these to limited.

Priapus and Cassianus, have you taken those names yourself for them? Good names always to the overall feeling IMO.


I tend to go for obscure jokey names.

Priapus is so named because he's a complete tool.

Cassianus got that name by chance, it was originally going to be for a very different NPC. I changed plans, but already had a character sheet with that name on it. Just being lazy.

I'm a huge fan of the Flashman novels, so I might have Priapus incorporate some of his, er, qualities.

Simon Hibbs


My old KAP3 campaign was set in Lambor. One of the knights in Lonazep on the border with Lambor was my equivalent of Flashman. The PKs interacted with him a few times (he was Sir Paget), but none of them caught the reference.

They did catch references to the Count's youngest son when a player realized that the Count never used the same name for him twice in a row at Court, just closely sounding ones. He wasn't generally active in the campaign unless one went off into the heavily wooded area where his manors were located.

I'm being careful in the Dorset campaign (for which the kickoff is now delayed, grrr) since I'm heavily using Romans with the Latin names and they are quite easy to twist and abuse. Thus care in choosing names for NPCs. I expect the PKs to slap nicknames on a bunch of them in any case based on interactions.

I use a online genealogy program (I use the one from http://www.myheritage.nl/, but you can find others at http://www.techsupportalert.com/best-free-genealogy-family-tree-software.htm#Gramps ) It helps me get a grip on the relations. Since one PK had three sisters he married of to the other PK the group now has strong family ties.

We just started the campaign so we are only at 486 atm. But most players liked the background of their family. They like the depth it brings to their own character, who was their father, their grandfathers, who are their uncles and aunts, etc. And with the GPC you are not so much playing a single character as well as a family.

I am not sure if the program supports me in the future, but until now I find it useful. I had one of the characters remotely related to the Earl. He is a grandnephew of a sister-in-law of Earl Roderick (so 7 steps removed). Because of their marriages they all are now related to the Earl.

There are also some excel files floating around the web, but I found these to limited.


Yes I read about that in an earlier thread. Must look those up. I myself work as an basic IT-teacher for adults, and I have a colleague that holds courses with genealogy-software. She uses the program "Genline FamilyFinder" (www.genline.com). But I have absolutely no experience with these programs, and Genline is evidently a program specifically made for the Swedish church books genealogy material.

Is it a trial-version of the program(s) you use?

Priapus and Cassianus, have you taken those names yourself for them? Good names always to the overall feeling IMO.


I tend to go for obscure jokey names.

Priapus is so named because he's a complete tool.

Cassianus got that name by chance, it was originally going to be for a very different NPC. I changed plans, but already had a character sheet with that name on it. Just being lazy.

I'm a huge fan of the Flashman novels, so I might have Priapus incorporate some of his, er, qualities.

Simon Hibbs


My old KAP3 campaign was set in Lambor. One of the knights in Lonazep on the border with Lambor was my equivalent of Flashman. The PKs interacted with him a few times (he was Sir Paget), but none of them caught the reference.

They did catch references to the Count's youngest son when a player realized that the Count never used the same name for him twice in a row at Court, just closely sounding ones. He wasn't generally active in the campaign unless one went off into the heavily wooded area where his manors were located.

I'm being careful in the Dorset campaign (for which the kickoff is now delayed, grrr) since I'm heavily using Romans with the Latin names and they are quite easy to twist and abuse. Thus care in choosing names for NPCs. I expect the PKs to slap nicknames on a bunch of them in any case based on interactions.


Yes delayed starts of campaigns is never fun! I hate when real life 'disturbs' the planning of the more important fantasy!

How many campaigns have you run in Pendragon until now? Sounds you are an absolute savant in KAP! I feel like an definite noob in these rules, although I own the game in three different versions (v. 1, 4 and 5.0). I actually feel a bit scared about using the Battle rules, which I am not well versed at all.

And Flashman? Who's that? Is it "Harry Paget Flashman"? I haven't read any of the books.

It is not a trial version. You need to input a valid email adres, but I have a special one for that kind of stuff. I think they want you to publish your findings through their website, but I have not done that.
To be honest I have no experience with this kind of software. I just tinkered around a bit and found this one useful.

I've run three "campaigns" in KAP3. Two were fairly short in terms of sessions run - perhaps 4-5 tops. The Lambor campaign lasted a little longer, but was also one that I spent the most time doing development work on in terms of NPCs and customized adventures. (Which is why I picked Lambor, I wanted something non-Salisbury that had some detail on it in Logres - and _Boy King_ had some Forest Savauge material that gave you some background to work from.)

I'm currently playing in a KAP5 campaign using the GPC. That has been running on a monthly basis for over two years now. We're up to 522 and has a feeling of stabilization; e.g. older characters are settling into semi-retirement to primarily run lands and the young 20-somethings are running around on adventure to gain glory or await an inheritance.

And since monthly *is not enough* I've opted to see if I can get something going locally and stir up interest in a "old" game among the D&D 4E and Pathfinder players around here. (I drive two hours to play in the one campaign with friends.)