Hello all.

Call me a nitpicker (and yes I understand this is not a critical part of the game - for most people) but I would really like to see something like a pronounciation list and/or a phonetic explanation to the greater names on the map of Arthurian Britain for the KAP game. I know my demands are big, but I for one shudders when certain (if not all) names aren't pronounced right.
Is there a possibility to get hold of this knowledge, short of reading through phonetic lists in all those medieval texts?

Names like Carohaige, Orofoise, Tribruit, Wuerensis, Rydychan, Guinnon, Pase, Amans, Orquelenes, etc, and also a lot of the Cymric pronounciations. The latter I have a little insight into already, wiht the celtic "double-L", "double D" and "W"-sounds, but other people may not know these sounds. I would think it be good to have more correct info, if at all possible. It's primarily the Cambrian area I'm thinking of here, with names like Llanilltud Fawr, Llarcarfan, Gwaelod, Galvoie, etc.

Sorry if this has been asked somewhere else! And thanks beforehand to helpers!

my opinion: however you say it is correct
I once had a Lebanese lad who who visibly twitch when I used French words
so I just paused and asked him to pronounce it properly whenever I had to use it

it was great fun for all

-Greg



Hello all.

Call me a nitpicker (and yes I understand this is not a critical part of the game - for most people) but I would really like to see something like a pronounciation list and/or a phonetic explanation to the greater names on the map of Arthurian Britain for the KAP game. I know my demands are big, but I for one shudders when certain (if not all) names aren't pronounced right.
Is there a possibility to get hold of this knowledge, short of reading through phonetic lists in all those medieval texts?

Names like Carohaige, Orofoise, Tribruit, Wuerensis, Rydychan, Guinnon, Pase, Amans, Orquelenes, etc, and also a lot of the Cymric pronounciations. The latter I have a little insight into already, wiht the celtic "double-L", "double D" and "W"-sounds, but other people may not know these sounds. I would think it be good to have more correct info, if at all possible. It's primarily the Cambrian area I'm thinking of here, with names like Llanilltud Fawr, Llarcarfan, Gwaelod, Galvoie, etc.

Sorry if this has been asked somewhere else! And thanks beforehand to helpers!

One of my players went to university in Wales and she corrects my pronunciation whenever it gets too much for her to bear.

If you do want to get close to proper pronunciation try looking at a Welsh language primer, such as: http://www.linguata.com/welsh/welsh-pronunciation.html

Ok, thank you for your answers.

My own guessing is this: Carohaige and many other like it for instance, I think is pronounced with a French accent. That is atleast the way I'm going to go.

I've been contemplating setting up a Google doc of Pendragon pronunciations for some time. That way, anyone who cared could collaborate on it. In fact, here you go:

http://goo.gl/prF73

I've seeded it with only one word, but will add to it anon. In the meantime, you're all welcome to contribute, or edit when you suspect something is wrong. The tricky part will be finding a universal phonetic guide that works for everyone. I will try to monitor that and make tweaks for consistency. This needs to happen no reason we should embarrass ourselves at the gaming table. It does have a way of taking you out of the moment.

Let's go!


T.

Call me a nitpicker (and yes I understand this is not a critical part of the game - for most people) but I would really like to see something like a pronounciation list and/or a phonetic explanation to the greater names on the map of Arthurian Britain for the KAP game. I know my demands are big, but I for one shudders when certain (if not all) names aren't pronounced right.


Not nitpicking at all. I think it's an excellent point. Although I understand Greg's all inclusive stance of "say whatever feels right" having a pronunciation guide would be most helpful and is entirely appropriate.

I live in London, but if I didn't, and found myself presented with a place name I'd never heard before I would attempt to pronounce it as written - and end up getting it very wrong. Thus Marylebone would be Mary-leh-bone not Mar-lee-bone, Leicester Sq would be Lie-cess-ter Sq(a place US tourists often ask me the way to) not Less-ter Sq, and even London itself would be Lon-don and not Luhn-duhn.

UK places that still exist are not a problem but those that don't can be tricky. My campaign recently took me to Estregales in Gales and as GM I had to make a call on the pronunciation. Even though Wales sounds fine as a one syllable word, the unfamiliarity of Gales (like the strong wind) was too weird so I used the French Gal-is, and Estregales became Es-treh-gal-is (Ester may be closer but I avoided that).

Such problems are replicated when it comes to Arthurian names. I'm not overly concerned with what the original sounded like, just the way the vast majority of people say it now. A great example for me is Sir Lamorak. Even though he's yet to appear in my campaign, I'd been saying his name in many different ways in preparation for when he did, none of which sounded right; Sir L'amour-wrack (yuck), Sir Lam-or-wrack (rhymes with Anorak, double yuck), etc. Then I chanced upon a forum where someone said it was Lamb-rok, a pronunciation I would never have arrived at on my own but one which sounded instantly better. Were it not for the universally known pronunciation of Lancelot I would be saying Lancelot as a two shot Lance-lot without the middle L.

While none of these mispronunciations are bad they make most of the words harder to say and miss the elegant sound of what was intended.

Taliesin - It’s never going to be easy to arrive at a definitive guide, especially as some words have multiple interpretations (eg King Aelle I’ve head Al-luh, Ale, & A-ell), but nonetheless I think a guide would be very useful. The perfect place for them would be on the Wiki (Russell are you out there?) or on Greg’s homepage in the Lands and Leaders section.

While we’re on this subject anyone care to give their take on these?
Badgemagus – Badge-magus? Ba-de-ma-gus? Bah-gem-a-gus?
Nanteleod – Nant (rhymes with ant) – telly – odd? Nant-lee-odd, or the same but with Nante rhyming with want.
Loholt – Low-holt? Low-olt? Lolt? Lout?
Gomeret?
Gwaelod?

Sir Pram, I agree it will be a little tricky, but we can always list variants on the spreadsheet. Also, I'm happy to post this on the wiki once we have a good list, but it seems like the Google doc is a better short-term collaboration tool, since anyone can get in and work immediately without having to jump through login hoops or figure out how to use the wiki.


T.

I've been contemplating setting up a Google doc of Pendragon pronunciations for some time. That way, anyone who cared could collaborate on it. In fact, here you go:

http://goo.gl/prF73

I've seeded it with only one word, but will add to it anon. In the meantime, you're all welcome to contribute, or edit when you suspect something is wrong. The tricky part will be finding a universal phonetic guide that works for everyone. I will try to monitor that and make tweaks for consistency. This needs to happen no reason we should embarrass ourselves at the gaming table. It does have a way of taking you out of the moment.

Let's go!


T.


Now this is a good effort! Thank you so much Taliesin! And sorry I haven't answered until now, I had a somewhat busy weekend first half. Very good document there, and I only contributed with two word tries, Rydychan and Malahaut, and then I suddenly understood the DOUBLE trickiness with this for me, because I'm not a native English-speaker: I have to try to express my phonetic thoughts and guesses in English! Now that's a challenge. Anyway, please correct me if I made a botch of my two guesses. Thanks again Taliesin!

Call me a nitpicker (and yes I understand this is not a critical part of the game - for most people) but I would really like to see something like a pronounciation list and/or a phonetic explanation to the greater names on the map of Arthurian Britain for the KAP game. I know my demands are big, but I for one shudders when certain (if not all) names aren't pronounced right.


Not nitpicking at all. I think it's an excellent point. Although I understand Greg's all inclusive stance of "say whatever feels right" having a pronunciation guide would be most helpful and is entirely appropriate.

I live in London, but if I didn't, and found myself presented with a place name I'd never heard before I would attempt to pronounce it as written - and end up getting it very wrong. Thus Marylebone would be Mary-leh-bone not Mar-lee-bone, Leicester Sq would be Lie-cess-ter Sq(a place US tourists often ask me the way to) not Less-ter Sq, and even London itself would be Lon-don and not Luhn-duhn.

UK places that still exist are not a problem but those that don't can be tricky. My campaign recently took me to Estregales in Gales and as GM I had to make a call on the pronunciation. Even though Wales sounds fine as a one syllable word, the unfamiliarity of Gales (like the strong wind) was too weird so I used the French Gal-is, and Estregales became Es-treh-gal-is (Ester may be closer but I avoided that).

Such problems are replicated when it comes to Arthurian names. I'm not overly concerned with what the original sounded like, just the way the vast majority of people say it now. A great example for me is Sir Lamorak. Even though he's yet to appear in my campaign, I'd been saying his name in many different ways in preparation for when he did, none of which sounded right; Sir L'amour-wrack (yuck), Sir Lam-or-wrack (rhymes with Anorak, double yuck), etc. Then I chanced upon a forum where someone said it was Lamb-rok, a pronunciation I would never have arrived at on my own but one which sounded instantly better. Were it not for the universally known pronunciation of Lancelot I would be saying Lancelot as a two shot Lance-lot without the middle L.

While none of these mispronunciations are bad they make most of the words harder to say and miss the elegant sound of what was intended.

Taliesin - It’s never going to be easy to arrive at a definitive guide, especially as some words have multiple interpretations (eg King Aelle I’ve head Al-luh, Ale, & A-ell), but nonetheless I think a guide would be very useful. The perfect place for them would be on the Wiki (Russell are you out there?) or on Greg’s homepage in the Lands and Leaders section.

While we’re on this subject anyone care to give their take on these?
Badgemagus – Badge-magus? Ba-de-ma-gus? Bah-gem-a-gus?
Nanteleod – Nant (rhymes with ant) – telly – odd? Nant-lee-odd, or the same but with Nante rhyming with want.
Loholt – Low-holt? Low-olt? Lolt? Lout?
Gomeret?
Gwaelod?


Sir P! Many thanks for your extensive answer, I liked it a lot! And thanks for supporting my sentiments, although I also agree with the general "Greg-opinion" somewhat, that everyone should be welcome to his or her own version of these names. But I am a little more conservative, myself, and so welcome any effort to straighten out this "problem". In my view, a crooked pronounciation of a word or a name can ruin the general atmosphere of the session, because some of these names are mentioned a lot of times! So, I was looking for some kind of list or general approach to these things, which Taleisin have just given so excellently!

Anyway, interesting with the everyday-pronouncings, and that Lamorak-version I've never heard of before! But what is that "...universally known pronunciation of Lancelot..."? I say Lahnss-eh-lott", isn't that the "right" or commonly agreed pronounciation? Then you said "...I would be saying Lancelot as a two shot Lance-lot without the middle L." Didn't you mean "without the middle E"? I interpreted it that way.

And you mean Bagdemagus - not Badge (like 'police badge') - magus, right? Well, I thinks it's pronounced "Bagg-dih-mah-guss", but that can easily be totally wrong, I am no expert. Then "Nan-tee-leeh-odd". After that, I guess, as you said "Low-holt", "Gomm-errey" and finally "Gooi-lodd" (this last one is truly just total guesswork by me).

Ni! ;D

Ni! ;D


HAHAHA! :)