One of my PKs has a son who is about to reach 21. That means he should be knighted, but the knight only has 1 manor and not enough income from that to afford his son's upkeep and his own.

How should this be handled? Does the son just remain an esquire until dad is too old or too dead to serve? Does the son become a bachelor knight somewhere? Does he become a mercenary? Is the father "forced" into retirement?

Just off the top of my head Rob,

I think that's one of the 5 standard things that the peasants/manor pays for, along with your ransom and a couple of other things. Knighting younger sons however, I think you're on your own with! :)

HTH

GR

Edited for my own stupidity!

Sorry the above applies to knighting the eldest. Upkeep is a different matter isn't it! Teach me to read properly. :-[
I don't know but an option may be for the father to network and politic to find a position for the son. A household knight of the father's Lord might be a good possibility. Alternatively are their other PCs who owe the PK a favour and are in a position to take on a young man of good family?
Also relevant is what phase it is. If it's an early phase the dad can knight him and the problem comes afterwards. Later it may need a Lord of some degree to make a knight and that Lord might be involved in "placing" the young man in a good position. Where was he squired? Does the knight with whom he served not have an opening or any colleagues with jobs available.
Knight mercenary, or "Riding Errant" as a gentleman vagabond I used to play, preferred to call it, is certainly an option. Mercenaries are more in demand in the early phases, tournament knights later on of course. But these are risky professions and could be expensive if he loses horse and armour and has to come limping home to Dad. Sounds like the Dad's main courtly activity for the year should be sorting out a position!

GR

Just off the top of my head Rob,

I think that's one of the 5 standard things that the peasants/manor pays for, along with your ransom and a couple of other things. Knighting younger sons however, I think you're on your own with! :)

HTH

GR

Oh, I'm aware his armor and initial equipment will be paid for by others.

The question is what to do about his upkeep. He's going to cost £1 for his upkeep, another £1 for his horse, and if he has a squire that will add another £2. That's £4 per year that my PC can't afford.

I have another PC who's not about to retire and also has a son soon to reach 21. He WILL be able to afford upkeep, but knowing him he'll want to skimp on the squire if I let him. How do I deal with THAT?

Overlapping post here but...

I think the PKs could keep their sons as "household knights" of their own if they can pay the standard fee each year, 4L for a household knight. To earn that the PK's with their new entourage could go out raiding or adventuring or hire out under false colours to fight in some local squabble as a band of mercenaries. That would share the burden. But it's a bit like borrowing money to invest. They need to make enough profit to support those extra knights and any extra soldiery they choose to hire on. In addition they still have an obligation to provide knight service for their lord and can't be seen to stint on that.
Their Lord may also be somewhat suspicious of these vassals starting up their own private army!
Adventuring for money may also mean some compromise with their principles. Depending on their personality traits it might not even be possible. Duchess: "Thank you my good sirs for saving my city. Have 10L reward", Sir Generous: "Oh, no reward necessary Ma'am". "D'oh!"
Trying to share the manor's income is also perilous. If the dad PK keeps himself as a poor knight and the son as a poor knight, he might b seen by the Lord as not upholding the feudal bargain and could lose his land!
Difficult position for the PKs to be in. However having kids and raising the next generation is one of the main points of Pendragon, so well done to 'em.

No saxon land next door is there?
Any heiresses to woo?

GR

One of my PKs has a son who is about to reach 21. That means he should be knighted, but the knight only has 1 manor and not enough income from that to afford his son's upkeep and his own.
How should this be handled? Does the son just remain an esquire until dad is too old or too dead to serve? Does the son become a bachelor knight somewhere? Does he become a mercenary? Is the father "forced" into retirement?

Some good replies have been made
especially concerning the potential problems
which is why
Historically, he'd remain an esquire until he could inherit

In Our Campaign (IOC), this issue came up with a younger brother of the PK. Luckily for them, their liege lord was in need of extra knights in order to do some conquering in France, and win or lose, there was bound to be open household knight slots afterwards for those who'd prove themselves on the field of battle.

Now, it of course depends on the Daddy Knight, but assuming he is suitably Glorious, as older PKs tend to be, there is a good chance (IOC) that he'd be able to parley his long, distinguished service into some favors from liege lord / other people wanting him as an ally. Politicking is definitely the name of the game here.

One of my PKs has a son who is about to reach 21. That means he should be knighted, but the knight only has 1 manor and not enough income from that to afford his son's upkeep and his own.
How should this be handled? Does the son just remain an esquire until dad is too old or too dead to serve? Does the son become a bachelor knight somewhere? Does he become a mercenary? Is the father "forced" into retirement?

Some good replies have been made
especially concerning the potential problems
which is why
Historically, he'd remain an esquire until he could inherit


And then his son would become a guild member if he had any talents and could apprentice himself out. Or even just a 'peasant'.

Ken Follett's, Pillars of the Earth and the sequel comes to mind.

(Damned autocorrect on tablets!)

<SNIP>. He WILL be able to afford upkeep, but knowing him he'll want to skimp on the squire if I let him. How do I deal with THAT?


If that is standard for him, I take it he already has a high selfish trait?

Let him, so long as he knows that a A Knight without a squire is not a Knight. People should rightly treat him as an esquire or Sergeant.
Mechanically, Give him an automatic point in Selfish each year he doesnt keep a squire (Greed to the point of folly) and an auto loss of 2-3 points of Honour, till he hits the 4pts honour = stripped of knighthood threshold.

<SNIP>. He WILL be able to afford upkeep, but knowing him he'll want to skimp on the squire if I let him. How do I deal with THAT?


Let him, so long as he knows that a A Knight without a squire is not a Knight. People should rightly treat him as an esquire or Sergeant.
Mechanically, Give him an automatic point in Selfish each year he doesnt keep a squire (Greed to the point of folly) and an auto loss of 2-3 points of Honour, till he hits the 4pts honour = stripped of knighthood threshold.


Bit harsh? I'd just sock him with the Armor and Horse Poor Maintenance clauses, due to the fact that he doesn't have a squire to look after his armor and horses. That is the downgrading of his armor due to rust and the increased fatality of horses. In short, it is more than enough incentive not to skimp on the squire in the long run.