Hey all,

Ran the Battle of Badon yesterday, four out of five players lost characters and two only survived because they were knocked unconscious in second day's battle before moving onto the third that ended it all, but questions were raised as to how the Hate Passion works under standard Battle rules (i.e. the ones in the 5.1 Pendragon book.)

I've had it that if you successfully activate your passion it lasts for the entire battle as that is the "task at hand" and doesn't last for more than a day, but I ruled that, as they had successfully rolled Hate (Saxons) they did not get their bonus when they were faced by a group of Picts, my players complained that it should apply because the Picts were fighting on the side of the Saxons, but I countered that that may be so but they are still *not Saxons*, so it didn't make sense for their intense hatred of one group to bleed onto any other race that happens to be present. They accepted this, grudgingly, mainly because they all have such high Hate passions that they knew that any excuse for them *not* to have +10 to their rolls made it at least a little bit more challenging, luckily, it wasn't the Picts that killed them in the end or I'd have had hell to pay! :P

Also, another quick query: if you're defending in combat does the +10 you get to the skill work like the +10 or +20 you get from your Passions? I.e. do you, if fighting multiple opponents, divide your skill amongst them then add the +10 for defending, then the +10 for your passion to each roll?

Re: Passions in battle

I think the current ruling is that the Passion lasts for only one battle round (or one extended melee), and you can only use one Passion once during the whole battle. That alleviates your problem somewhat, and makes the PKs hoard their passions until they truly need it, which is a good thing. We played it earlier like you did, which pretty much meant that everyone rolled Loyalty(Pendragon) at first and then critted their way through the Battle. Mind you, whether it was admissable to roll Loyalty just because you were fighting under Arthur's leadership against those Kings who denied his claim is a whole other debate. :P

As for Hate (Enemy nation), I would say that it depends. Lets imagine the PKs are assaulting a Saxon hall, and get inspired with Hate(Saxons). Then, they notice that there is a Cymric Knight, a traitor, in the hall as well, and cross swords with him. I'd rule that the Hate(Saxons) applies to the traitor as well, who by his actions has become a 'Saxon' in the PKs eyes. I.e. his betrayal is reinforcing the Hate, rather than distracting from it. On the other hand, a contingent of allied Picts ('never did anything against me and mine') or miscellaneous mercenaries ('just doing me job, m'lud'), probably not. In my mind, context matters. Hate (Someones) implies that the PK hates certain group, but not the others. Mind you, I do see Saxons as a blanket term covering Angles and Jutes as well.

Re: Combat modifiers

Again, we might be doing this wrong, but this is how we play it:
1) Your skill is your normal skill + any bonus from Passion.
2) Select your Tactic, apply modifiers to your skill.
3) Divide your skill amongst your opponents.
4) Apply situational modifiers against your divided skill.

So yes, if we have a knight on foot with skill 15 impassioned against one knight on foot and another on horseback, this is how it would break down...
1) Skill 15 + 10 (well, +5 in our case, but lets go by the book) = Skill 25.
2) Defensive tactics: 25+10 = 35.
3) Dividing skill: 20 against man on horseback, 15 against the man on foot.
4) Situational modifiers: 20-5 against mounted = 15 against the man on horseback as well as 15 against the man on foot.

Morien has made a correct call on these questions, but I want to back him up



Ran the Battle of Badon yesterday, four out of five players lost characters and two only survived because they were knocked unconscious in second day's battle before moving onto the third that ended it all, but questions were raised as to how the Hate Passion works under standard Battle rules (i.e. the ones in the 5.1 Pendragon book.)

Considering that they were impassioned the whole battle, that is one hecka body count!


I've had it that if you successfully activate your passion it lasts for the entire battle as that is the "task at hand" and doesn't last for more than a day,

Book of Battle, I thought, made it clear that a Passion in battle lasts only one round


but I ruled that, as they had successfully rolled Hate (Saxons) they did not get their bonus when they were faced by a group of Picts, my players complained that it should apply because the Picts were fighting on the side of the Saxons, but I countered that that may be so but they are still *not Saxons*, so it didn't make sense for their intense hatred of one group to bleed onto any other race that happens to be present. They accepted this, grudgingly, mainly because they all have such high Hate passions that they knew that any excuse for them *not* to have +10 to their rolls made it at least a little bit more challenging, luckily, it wasn't the Picts that killed them in the end or I'd have had hell to pay! :P

This problem would not have existed with the passions lasting only one round
And I'd never allow a Hate Saxons to work against Picts


Also, another quick query: if you're defending in combat does the +10 you get to the skill work like the +10 or +20 you get from your Passions? I.e. do you, if fighting multiple opponents, divide your skill amongst them then add the +10 for defending, then the +10 for your passion to each roll?

Morien correctly called it again

Well, they made it through 4 out of 8 kings, they were mostly taken down by the royal guardsmen using their loyalty lord passion (which raised the question of whether the guardsmen would become disheartened or shocked if their lord died will invoking their passion?) and the kings themselves who I gave Hate Britons to, seeing as one of the players had a 20 in Hate Saxons, which was making him pretty unstoppable! There was also the fact one player got critted by a Small giant in the first round of the second battle. . . .

Aye, as I said, I'm not using the Book of the Battle as I don't own it yet, so I'm relying on the 5.1 Pendragon book that doesn't say anything specific about passions and battles, just the comment on page 73 of the book that says "This inspiration lasts for the length of the task at hand, but never for more than one full day."

Ahh, ok, so you add your tactics, then your passions, divide them amongst the enemies, *then* you add situational modifiers (on foot, horseback etc.) on all the rolls? Cool. That makes them significantly less terrifying even with passions. . . .

Thanks, Greg, for the clarification and for having my back. :)



(which raised the question of whether the guardsmen would become disheartened or shocked if their lord died will invoking their passion?)

... so I'm relying on the 5.1 Pendragon book that doesn't say anything specific about passions and battles, just the comment on page 73 of the book that says "This inspiration lasts for the length of the task at hand, but never for more than one full day."


1. I think Saxons! -book had a comment that if the bodyguards let their King die, they will get their freak on and try to kill the culprits in vengeance or die trying, as that is the only way for them to regain their honor. So any disheartening would be because of poor passion rolling rather than automatically following from the King dying.

2. I see that quote in the context of 'task at hand'. You can't say 'I am using my Hate passion to kill all Saxons I will ever come across', roll once, and then be impassioned forevermore against Saxons. It needs to be more personal: 'I will kill these bastards right here'. Or, a better context, 'I will chase down this robber knight who is trying to ride away.' and then your Passion would last for as long as you are chasing that knight, or for a day, whichever is less.

Granted, like I said, we were using Passions similarly to you, having them active the whole battle. Now we are more stingy. :) Especially with +10 Passions, the cost for NOT using them tends to be higher than using them and failing. Also, since the failure is punished, there is actually a powergaming tendency to use them also to cut through weaker opponents easily, whereas in a truly tight spot, using a Passion can actually expose you to a double-whammy: the consequences of failing in your quest and then losing stat points due to a failure. So rather than being a Crowning Moment of Awesome for the Player, it makes defeat even more bitter. We scaled down both the upside (+5 instead of +10) and the downside (no statloss, but extended yet still temporary melancholy), as well as clamp down on the Passion use.

Aye, that was my logic too, the Royal guards weren't going to collapse like soulless automata because their king had died while they were protecting them, they were going to fight until they died because their king was dead!

Definitely, for passion rolls they've only used them in battles and combats so far, where they've lasted the whole combat and the whole battle, I'd never let someone have a passion last longer than the "scene" it was invoked upon, or at most a day if the character is spending the entire day focused on whatever he invoked the passion for.

Will definitely have a chat with my players equipped with more information and see what we end up doing, limiting passion use is probably a better idea than an arms race of crazily impassioned PKs and enemies.

Luckily, the players have high Hate passions only and I'm incredibly careful with how they can employ other passions like loyalty lord (only if the lord is present and/or has received a grievous insult) and so on.