I have been playing Pendragon for 3 years, I play editions 4th 5th and 5.1 though I have books for earlier editions and mix and match quite a bit when I run.

I have been trying to flesh out a Roman game as a gesture of thanks for the poor soul who is currently GMing me. While most of the rules are strikingly easy to transfer over I have been having problems building armies. I am trying to make rhyme or reason out of KV.

They have shifted between editions (and between books) which is okay due to the game balance and style issues each edition takes but I'm basically trying to work out. An archer or footman is 1/6 and a levy is 1/25 but what makes an archer 4x better than a peasant. Is it the equipment or tactics? If so why is a Ceorl/Coerl only 1/10 value when they can form a Scildburh (testudo) formation?

Any help would be great, thank you.

An archer or footman is 1/6 and a levy is 1/25 but what makes an archer 4x better than a peasant. Is it the equipment or tactics? If so why is a Ceorl/Coerl only 1/10 value when they can form a Scildburh (testudo) formation?

Any help would be great, thank you.


You roughly get what you pay for. At least that is my recollection from looking over the hiring prices and the knight values. The reason the archer is so much more efficient than a man of the levy is that the levy is composed mainly of semi-/untrained peasants with improvised weaponry (scythes, axes, maybe a hunting bow or a spear amongst them) and usually no armor. The archer is a professional soldier, with higher skill and better equipment, and experience in war and tactics. So while your levy mills around trying to decide what your order meant (or worse, simply run away at the sight of the enemy charging), the archer is more able to follow orders and do what is necessary. Hence higher KV.

Ceorls are levy on steroids. Saxons are big brutes to start with, and likely come with actual weapons and shields, maybe even with some armor. Also, they have some experience in raiding and warfare, but they are still basically peasants and not full time soldiers. Hence, they are able to eat the levy for breakfast, but not as tough as the professional soldiers.

I see a KV as comprising out of several different factors:
- the arms and armour of the person involved.
- the discipline (are they used to fighting as a group or not)
- the skill (are they trained ro not)
- the morale (are they mercenaries or fighting for their own land)

Of course this is all compared to a basic average knight. Him being 1 KV.

And as Morien states ceorls are better at hacking and slashing than levy (better skill and maybe arms), but they lack the discipline and morale to keep standing. Thus their giving them a low KV.

Hmmm so am I wrong in my assumption that Ceorl were trained to form Scildburh formation or that it simply has no tactical value under the KV system?

So far I'm thinking of Pedites (really Roman Ceorls) worth 1/10 of a KV while Celeres (Cavalry without stirrups) are worth 1/2 KV.