I was just a tad curious about something.

If a PK is unmarried he begins with a manor producing 6 Libram per year - with costs of 2 libram for the Knight (and Squire) as well as 2 libram for the upkeep of his horses - leaving 2 libram to spare.

Without a wife the PK should spend 1 libram per year to hire a Steward leaving 1 libram per year left over (which I assume goes to treasury to be saved for manor improvements and such {if I am wrong please let me know - I don't see anything to the contrary} or in the event of misfourtune to the manor).

The Steward can either be a hired professional at 1 libram per year with a starting skill of 10+1d6 or a brother, uncle or other family member who is an esquire is simply given the job with a starging skill of 2 for a man or 5 for a woman (I am again assuming a sister or cousin or such - since the PK is the oldest brother I doubt it would be a niece, unless "yes I know she is 7 but man can she run my manor!!" ;D).

I am also making the assumption that the family esquire given the steward job is going to cost the PK about 1 libram per year in any event.

Since in the Winter Phase the Stewardship roll is so important - why would anyone not hire a professional Steward for the same 1 libram per year? The professional starts with a Stewardship skill of 11 to 16 versus the esquire's skill of 2 (or 5 for women - what is the female form of esquire? esquirette?)

Am I missing something?

I know that when the PK gets married his wife takes over the Stewardship of the manor regardless of her stewardship skill [what a fun way to bone a PK who is money obsessed - the wife is very pretty but she bankrupted you!!!]

Any thoughts? Would be nice to get a meaningful discussion out of this.

Thanks!

Regards,
Todd

Since in the Winter Phase the Stewardship roll is so important - why would anyone not hire a professional Steward for the same 1 libram per year? The professional starts with a Stewardship skill of 11 to 16 versus the esquire's skill of 2 (or 5 for women - what is the female form of esquire? esquirette?)

Am I missing something?

My copy of BotM says that starting skill for a professional is 5+2d6 rather than 10+1d6 plus you have to pay £1 to search one out (possibly this is a change between editions - I have 1st) - so you have to pay and then take a chance on getting someone not much better than a wife would do. Beyond that however there are the non-rules implications which I will illustrate by turning your question around.

Why would anyone hire a professional Steward when you have a cousin who is in need of a career appropriate to their station? How will they feel when you pass them over for a stranger? What will you say to their father (one of the 'Old Knights' on your sheet perhaps?) when you next see him at the muster? Will he come to your aid when the Steward turns out to be a vile traitor who opens the gates to your worst enemy while you are attending the Earl's court?

My houserule for this is that I get the PKs to roll their Love Family passion - if they succeed there's a promising young man (skill = 2+1d6) in the lineage they can appoint, otherwise 'cousin Harry needs a job' (skill=2). Crits and fumbles bump your passion up/down a point as well. Alternatively they can ignore the lineage and get a professional - if they do this it costs them the search fee (£1) plus a point of Love Family (over and above any bumps from crits/fumbles on the roll), but the appointee starts on 5+2d6 so will almost certainly be better at the job.

Regards
Luke

Why would anyone hire a professional Steward when you have a cousin who is in need of a career appropriate to their station? How will they feel when you pass them over for a stranger? What will you say to their father (one of the 'Old Knights' on your sheet perhaps?) when you next see him at the muster? Will he come to your aid when the Steward turns out to be a vile traitor who opens the gates to your worst enemy while you are attending the Earl's court?


Wish I had done this rather than allowed the PKs just hire trustworthy strangers with Stewardship 12 for 1 librum. :)

Oh well. At least the jockeying to push a brother or an ex-squire for a household knight slot has been fierce. :)

The Book of the ESTATE presents a simpler economic system to match the desired situation

Basically, it has a fixed income for land, whose full income is acquired as long as someone fills the required task with a minimum skill requirement.

Cousin Alisander with Stewardship 5 will do just as well as the stranger Esquire Francois with 25.

Other points of the alternate economic system: NO BOOKEEPING, Simpler Winter Phase

Thank God

The Book of the ESTATE presents a simpler economic system to match the desired situation

Basically, it has a fixed income for land, whose full income is acquired as long as someone fills the required task with a minimum skill requirement.

Cousin Alisander with Stewardship 5 will do just as well as the stranger Esquire Francois with 25.

Other points of the alternate economic system: NO BOOKEEPING, Simpler Winter Phase




Thank God


To be fair, the game system already has a bare bones manorial system provided, basically by GM Fiat. You only really need to use the full BotM system if you want to - and in my group's case it's actually proved surprisingly popular, though it does require us to set aside time to deal with it online between sessions.

Still, I do like the idea of "minimum stewardship levels to achieve certain funds". I can see size of manor and manorial advances increasing the minimum stewardship figure so there's still a reason to increase it, but a beginner knight will do just fine with a basic steward.

I was just a tad curious about something.

If a PK is unmarried he begins with a manor producing 6 Libram per year - with costs of 2 libram for the Knight (and Squire) as well as 2 libram for the upkeep of his horses - leaving 2 libram to spare.

Without a wife the PK should spend 1 libram per year to hire a Steward leaving 1 libram per year left over (which I assume goes to treasury to be saved for manor improvements and such {if I am wrong please let me know - I don't see anything to the contrary} or in the event of misfourtune to the manor).

The Steward can either be a hired professional at 1 libram per year with a starting skill of 10+1d6 or a brother, uncle or other family member who is an esquire is simply given the job with a starging skill of 2 for a man or 5 for a woman (I am again assuming a sister or cousin or such - since the PK is the oldest brother I doubt it would be a niece, unless "yes I know she is 7 but man can she run my manor!!" ;D).

I am also making the assumption that the family esquire given the steward job is going to cost the PK about 1 libram per year in any event.

Since in the Winter Phase the Stewardship roll is so important - why would anyone not hire a professional Steward for the same 1 libram per year? The professional starts with a Stewardship skill of 11 to 16 versus the esquire's skill of 2 (or 5 for women - what is the female form of esquire? esquirette?)

Am I missing something?

I know that when the PK gets married his wife takes over the Stewardship of the manor regardless of her stewardship skill [what a fun way to bone a PK who is money obsessed - the wife is very pretty but she bankrupted you!!!]

Any thoughts? Would be nice to get a meaningful discussion out of this.


I think the economics of this situation is one of those things you need to see in play to entirely understand, because it doesn't read very clearly.

Firstly, remember that a single pound is a big deal to a starting knight. It's not just £1, it's 1/6th of his entire income and the income system is such that he can't guarantee having much "play money". Choosing to spend £1 on a steward is a good decision IMHO but I can understand why a knight might prefer to spend that money on investments or just living at a higher, more glorious standard. If your knights have a high enough Stewardship themselves, even the penalties for not being present might not put them off that much.

Secondly, just because a steward is professional doesn't intrinsically mean they aren't family. In my game, I let a player make his uncle the professional steward. I had assumed a cousin/sister/etc being used as a Steward was "free", so there's a reason to use the low family member option. Wives are different, I assumed, because the money to keep them isn't just to have them be stewards but all the other expenses. Paying the extra £1 kept the family member in a better situation and guarantees their full attention, hence the better skill roll.

Finally, remember that starting skills go up and up for retinue until they hit 15, whereupon they go up slower. Picking up a family steward might be worse at the start, but a sister will probably hit 15 in 10 years. Once you hit 15 the differences are much of a muchness: and in any case, after 10 years a knight probably has a wife with their own skill level to increase.

In short, the system works if you assume a 2 or 5 skill family steward is not costing £1. Silburnl's suggestion of cultural pressure is interesting as well - not the way I'd do it but I can see the logic, especially if you want to emphasise the "clan"ish nature of the era.

I have been running this problem in my head for a bit. I have fair answer I think about this.

Until the PK came of age ( I am assuming first PK here), their the Earl would run the Manor. Or this something I have been putting into thought. There would one other family member that still be alive and used to running the manor.

I am talking about the PK's mother. The Manor is already used to having her there, as you was provided for when the PK father was alive. Her upkeep could be provided for as apart of the uncounted income, as somebody who is used running the place would know how find a little extra for herself.or £1 as the cost of a hired Steward. This would be up to you in your game. As for starting skill I used 12+1d6 to reflect her age. This was done on the understanding that as soon as the PK got married then the wife will run the Manor at her skill level. Plus behind the scenes she was also working hard to get him married off. The longest that this worked for was 5 years and the last one was married. He was some how catch but the ladies father in bed with him with blood on the sheet. Lucky we was a rich merchant and so a good dwory sweeten the pot a little.

The Book of the ESTATE presents a simpler economic system to match the desired situation

Basically, it has a fixed income for land, whose full income is acquired as long as someone fills the required task with a minimum skill requirement.

Cousin Alisander with Stewardship 5 will do just as well as the stranger Esquire Francois with 25.

Other points of the alternate economic system: NO BOOKEEPING, Simpler Winter Phase


This is surely the greatest news in all Christendom.

Keep an eye on these forums for a sneak peak of ESTATE, due this spring! One hundred pages of baronial goodness.


T.