Hi all. This may come as a shock to some of you, but I am not sure how to judge a situation when the vassal knight dies while his children are still minors. Hence the question, to whose benefit.

Imagine a situation where a knight has a 18 year old son, and say, 14 year old daughter. He happens to die in battle, leaving his children as Wards to the Liege Lord. Then time passes, and the boy hits 21 and the girl hits 17.

1. Now, the eldest son is knighted, and normally this would trigger the Universal Aid, but there is no living vassal knight at the manor whose eldest son he'd be. Is the Universal Aid for knighting the eldest son triggered or not?

2. Assuming that the above answer was yes, then I would assume that the same applies for the wedding of the daughter. However, what happens if the daughter gets married only after her big brother has inherited the estate? Is he still able to invoke the Universal Aid on her behalf as the eldest daughter of their father, even though she is his sister and not his daughter? I would assume even if this is a yes, it would not prevent him from doing the same for his 'real' eldest daughter.

3. Now, the flipside. What happens if the Liege Lord calls in one of the Universal Aids, in which case the vassal knight should have paid X amount of libra out of his own pocket, but now the Liege Lord is overseeing the estate? Does he dip into the estate purse, if any (i.e. if the dead vassal knight had some savings, the Liege Lord would use those), or does he simply waive that money? What if there is no money to be paid?

So far, we have been a bit vague about all of these, but I can see it becoming rather important when the next generational crop comes to play, with their fathers dead and buried. It can make a big difference if they will get the inherited arms and armor AND whatever the peasants will contribute towards the knighting.

Imagine a situation where a knight has a 18 year old son, and say, 14 year old daughter. He happens to die in battle, leaving his children as Wards to the Liege Lord. Then time passes, and the boy hits 21 and the girl hits 17.

The answers to this depend entirely on whether or not the liege lord follows the rules or not.
I will assume he does.


1. Now, the eldest son is knighted, and normally this would trigger the Universal Aid, but there is no living vassal knight at the manor whose eldest son he'd be. Is the Universal Aid for knighting the eldest son triggered or not?

It is.
The lord is not going to pay for this himself, so he will take it from the commoners, as usual.


2. Assuming that the above answer was yes, then I would assume that the same applies for the wedding of the daughter. However, what happens if the daughter gets married only after her big brother has inherited the estate? Is he still able to invoke the Universal Aid on her behalf as the eldest daughter of their father, even though she is his sister and not his daughter? I would assume even if this is a yes, it would not prevent him from doing the same for his 'real' eldest daughter.

Since he has inherited the estate, yes
After all, he will have chosen her husband
and would want to bring honor to the family


3. Now, the flipside. What happens if the Liege Lord calls in one of the Universal Aids, in which case the vassal knight should have paid X amount of libra out of his own pocket, but now the Liege Lord is overseeing the estate?

Since the liege is the warden, he will simply get the money


Does he dip into the estate purse, if any (i.e. if the dead vassal knight had some savings,

Savings! Unheard of!
If the estate had material goods that might seem to be "savings," he cannot sell them because he is required to return the estate in the same condition he found it


the Liege Lord would use those), or does he simply waive that money? What if there is no money to be paid?

There is always money (or rather, goods, since the peasants have very little actual money (at least int he Uther and Anarchy and Boy King Periods)
The peasants had a bad year and are short of food?
Too bad for them! Get the food men!!


So far, we have been a bit vague about all of these, but I can see it becoming rather important when the next generational crop comes to play, with their fathers dead and buried. It can make a big difference if they will get the inherited arms and armor AND whatever the peasants will contribute towards the knighting.

They ought to get the arms and armor, or a suitable replacement

Thanks for a speedy response, Greg. I will simply summarize in below to make sure I have understood correctly. Also, I am a bit hazy about the answer to point 2, since it had like three different situations all rolled into one. :)

A) The Lord is the warden of the estate, so he would use the estate as his own. That is, if he calls for Universal Aid for his own benefit, the peasants pay as if he were their vassal knight. Whereas if the vassal knight would still be alive, getting the money would be his problem, not the peasants'; although the problems of the knight tend to become the problems of the peasants (squeezes).

B) As the warden of the children, the Lord is able to invoke Universal Aid on their behalf (the knighting of the eldest son and the marriage of the eldest daughter) as if he were their father and the vassal knight of that estate.

C) What happens if the eldest son inherits before his eldest sister gets married? Is the brother (the new vassal knight) able to invoke the Universal Aid on his sister's behalf (the eldest daughter of their father's) after he has inherited the post, or has the opportunity been lost by the time he inherits? For example, lets say that the son inherits at 21, and his eldest sister is still 7, way way too young to be wed. Ten years later, the sister is 17 and a husband needs to be found. Can the brother invoke Universal Aid, or is it invalid since the sister is not his eldest daughter?

Can the brother invoke Universal Aid, or is it invalid since the sister is not his eldest daughter?


I have always assumed that he can't.

Thanks for a speedy response, Greg. I will simply summarize in below to make sure I have understood correctly. Also, I am a bit hazy about the answer to point 2, since it had like three different situations all rolled into one. :)

A) The Lord is the warden of the estate, so he would use the estate as his own. That is, if he calls for Universal Aid for his own benefit, the peasants pay as if he were their vassal knight. Whereas if the vassal knight would still be alive, getting the money would be his problem, not the peasants'; although the problems of the knight tend to become the problems of the peasants (squeezes).

Correct


B) As the warden of the children, the Lord is able to invoke Universal Aid on their behalf (the knighting of the eldest son and the marriage of the eldest daughter) as if he were their father and the vassal knight of that estate.

Correct


C) What happens if the eldest son inherits before his eldest sister gets married? Is the brother (the new vassal knight) able to invoke the Universal Aid on his sister's behalf (the eldest daughter of their father's) after he has inherited the post, or has the opportunity been lost by the time he inherits? For example, lets say that the son inherits at 21, and his eldest sister is still 7, way way too young to be wed. Ten years later, the sister is 17 and a husband needs to be found. Can the brother invoke Universal Aid, or is it invalid since the sister is not his eldest daughter?

It is hazy
ie- great story material if you want some run in with the peasants :)
or
GM decisions!!