I thinks it's a bit unclear in BoM (page 42 in my edition) who is going to make the Stewardship roll for harvest. As far as I can see, there are two interpretations:

1) If the PK can roll (i.e. has not been absent the whole year), he must roll even if he has the maximum -6 penalty. If he is absent the whole year, is not married and (for some obscure reason) don't have a steward the result is an automatic Fumble. If he his absent and has a wife and or a steward, any one of the two can roll. (Or it might be read as a wife roll if she is present, and a steward will only roll if there is neither a knight nor his wife at the manor for the whole year).

2) The PK, the wife (if there is one) or the steward (if there is one) can make the roll. The player choses whom to make it, freely.

When I ran my PGC, I assumed 2) was the correct (and its generous towards the players, anyway) but it has occurred to me that it might not be correct. I'm thinking, if a knight spends any time at all at his manor would he really let the wife or steward run the thing for him? Isn't he kind of required to do that? Imagine the following conversation:

The Reeve: "Sire, we must decide when to plant the winter rye on the Two Oak enclosure. The peasants need to know when the will be working the land, so that they can get their own harvests' in."
Sir Round Table Knight, highly respected in court, with 23000 Glory, always keen to get his own way: "Why do you bother me? I'm drinking my wine and playing chess with my knightly mates. Go and ask my wife! Never disturb my loafing again!"

Does it make sense to you?

Anyways, just curious how you handle this in your games and how you interpret (the somewhat foggy writing) in BoM.

Generally we run it that the wife rolls if there is one.

In the current campaign no PK has ever developed stewardship to any reasonable level so it would be punitive to make them try to run the manor without a clue.

Most keep a steward on staff in case something untoward happens to the wife but even if the steward has better skill than the wife allowing him to roll in her stead without good reason will likely cause serious marital friction.

I thinks it's a bit unclear in BoM (page 42 in my edition) who is going to make the Stewardship roll for harvest.

The wife, if there is one;
otherwise
the steward, if there is one; or else
a bad choice in the early Phase.
the player knight.

Okay, so there's no loss of prestige if the knight leaves it to his wife. I get it.

I'm writing my own BoM, and will publish it here in due time.

I would go for the wife or steward as well. Assume the knight is more interested in the larger issues. Are we going to build a mill or a smithy. Things like that. the wife or steward is his XO, seeing to it that it is implemented.

Assume that the knight is smart enough to know to listen to his own advisers. In your case the knight would probably look to his wife, who would suggest a reasonable time. The knight will then say something like: "Make it so" and indeed continue his game with his friends.

Of course if a PK wants to deal with this himself, he can of course, but will have to suffer the consequences.

Okay, so there's no loss of prestige if the knight leaves it to his wife. I get it.

I'm writing my own BoM, and will publish it here in due time.


Definitely no stigma with it. In fact, the women were supposed to run the household while the men were off to fight. Although naturally, when the Lord and Master of his Domains is back, his word is final. If he is smart, he will let his wife take care of the boring stuff, though. :)

And looking forward to seeing what you are working with!

Definitely no stigma with it. In fact, the women were supposed to run the household while the men were off to fight. Although naturally, when the Lord and Master of his Domains is back, his word is final. If he is smart, he will let his wife take care of the boring stuff, though. :)

So they all pretend that he is the lord and master, and she makes all the real decisions. Makes sense.



And looking forward to seeing what you are working with!


Thanks. I'm trying to boil down the BoM to something more manageable and less time consuming, while allowing for some customization of manors. It's a long term project, but I want to hear what the esteemed members of this forum thinks about it, so I will post it here.

In my GPC, the PKs have two major incentives to develop their stewardship scores:

First, the PK stewardship is used to give intelligence about the other major factions within the game (each player receives different, private information). Several of the other courtly skills provide similar information. Stewardship, in particular, provides information about the holdings and wealth of their peers.

The second incentive is that each year, stewards acquire a trait called corruption. Attentive PKs forestall this accumulation in any year where they succeed at a stewardship roll. When the steward fails a corruption check, the PK's income is harmed to the benefit of the steward (embezzlement, pet projects, etc). If the PK makes their stewardship roll in the same year that the steward's corruption roll succeeds, the steward is caught, and the loss is prevented.

These rules were put in place partly in response to the fact that having a professional steward was generally so much superior to having a wife, and the rules we were using at the time did not account for paying the steward (pre-BotM). We've since evolved toward the BotM rules, for manorial improvements in particular, but we're still an odd mix of the two.

Definitely no stigma with it. In fact, the women were supposed to run the household while the men were off to fight.
Indeed, the risk goes the other way - a knight who intrudes upon the running of his manor to the extent of rolling his Stewardship skill for the annual check, rather than wife doing it is showing his lady grave disrespect by interfering in this fashion. It suggests that she is untrustworthy and/or incompetent.

She is extremely likely to get upset at this treatment and her relatives won't be happy if (when!) they hear of it, as it reflects badly upon them as well.

Regards
Luke

Is there a starting "stewardship" score for the wife? Is there a way to increase it?

Is there a starting "stewardship" score for the wife? Is there a way to increase it?


Well, there are starting stats for female characters in BoKL, but that is before "squire" training and all that.

A "Lady" has a Stewardship skill of 12 according to KAP5.1 p. 179.

BoM (1st ed) states that the wife starts with 5 in Stewardship. It increases one point per year up to fifteen, and after that there is a one in six chance of an increase each year (p. 9).

Thanks!

"12" and "5" is one heck of a disparity. I'm thinking of tying it into class. For example, both knights who got married right away married beneath their station. It makes sense to start them at "5" - youth and lack of proper education regarding such things. Marrying at station or beyond should produce a better starting #. That makes it a trade-off.

In our campaign, it is slightly luck/design dependent.

The eldest daughters of vassal knights have big(ger) dowries and expect to marry vassal knights; hence, they tend to learn Stewardship in order to fulfil the role of the mistress of the manor.

The younger daughters of vassal knights have smaller dowries and more often expect to marry down and make their living as ladies in waiting and such. Hence, they tend to focus more on Fashion, Courtesy, and other Courtly Skills.

Individuals will vary. Ambitious/wealthy/famous parents might marry even younger daughters off to vassal knights, and hence they would push their offspring to learn Stewardship. Some younger daughters might actually like Stewardship, while their eldest sister might prefer pretty dresses and dancing.

Widows tend to be reasonably good at Stewardship, especially if they have been looking after the estate for a while.

In our campaign, it is slightly luck/design dependent.

The eldest daughters of vassal knights have big(ger) dowries and expect to marry vassal knights; hence, they tend to learn Stewardship in order to fulfil the role of the mistress of the manor.

The younger daughters of vassal knights have smaller dowries and more often expect to marry down and make their living as ladies in waiting and such. Hence, they tend to focus more on Fashion, Courtesy, and other Courtly Skills.

Individuals will vary. Ambitious/wealthy/famous parents might marry even younger daughters off to vassal knights, and hence they would push their offspring to learn Stewardship. Some younger daughters might actually like Stewardship, while their eldest sister might prefer pretty dresses and dancing.

Widows tend to be reasonably good at Stewardship, especially if they have been looking after the estate for a while.


This is what I did too. Rulings, not rules. Would this particular wife be poor, average, good or excellent? You can find a good answer without any rules.

You can also play a bit with player expectations here. Would you like a wife with APP 20 and Stewardship 5 or the other way around? Let them choose and live with the consequences.