I'd like your ideas on how militant the early Church would likely be (as a matter of doctrine, not the whim of individual priests though I know this would play a big part) towards all things Faerie. Specifically, one of my PKs has a half-fae squire. I'd like to make this an additional complication for the players during the Treason Trial of 492. Father Dewi is clearly no fan of Merlin, the "son of the devil" and so it is easy to see conspiracies when there is a denizen of the Other World among these knights.

So I'd like to ratchet up the threat a bit, but I don't want the squire or PKs executed. But I'm thinking of making it very, very uncomfortable for the squire NPC. I can't really see a rescue mission taking place — they're all being held in the King's fortress of Tintagel, after all.

A couple of things: although the conventional wisdom is to ignore squires — and NPC's in general — I only have two players so I tend to develop NPCs that are very close to the PKs more, to provide more plot hooks and to make them more than mere cyphers. So this half-fae squire, raised in Faerie, has a back story. He could be very useful to the PKs in the future, and perhaps even a foil depending how things develop. But for now, he lives. But I do want this episode to have lasting consequences on the campaign. Torture seems too obvious, so I'm looking for some other twist perhaps. If I can't come up with something, I can always fall back on hot irons for the fae, or dunking in holy water and severe questioning techniques for the PKs, or other methods to remove their "taint." Maybe Roderick (or his representative) comes in with veiled threats against the king should harm come to all these knights, who have ever been faithful servants to Roderick and, by extension, the king.

But the thing is, I need to keep the players engaged — I don't want them to just sit idly by while this narrative unfolds. I thought about a trial by combat. The PK defends the squire and some other knight steps forth to defend the Church. I've thought about making this holy defender a real hero of the court — an Extraordinary knights. The PK get his Love (Family) passion, and the other knight gets nothing — at least until maybe he's on the ropes. Then he'd roll what — Honor? — when faced with the humiliation of being bested by a relative nobody? Also, this trial by combat would typically be "for conquest," yes? The first to yield?

There's the risk of the PK losing this fight, of course. Then what happens if the fae squire is found guilty? Trying to think all these threads through to their logical conclusion. Still don't want death for the fae, if I can avoid it. He's got a lot of potential in my campaign. But as Greg is so fond of saying, "everything has consequences," I'm thinking this fae amongst our company during this critical episode HAS to have consequences.

I'm still brainstorming, so all ideas are welcome. Thanks is advance!


Best,


T.

I am assuming from your set-up that the half-fae's origins are known to the accusers?

Well, the obvious question, for my mind, is: Is the half-fae squire a Christian? Is he unharmed by holy water and relics and prayers? If he is, then the 'obvious' solution for the PKs to suggest would be for him to attend mass and do all sorts of things like that to prove that he is not in league with the Devil. I think lots of knights might feel ill-at-ease at the idea of torturing a youth, who, after all, has done nothing wrong except give loyal service to his knight, and most likely has not personally participated in any treacherous behavior other than watch his knight beat up some of the king's knights?

If he is a non-Christian and harmed by holy things, then he is in big trouble if you are painting the early Church as that militant. Then, as the PK, I would try very much to steer the discussion away from tests with holy things, and yeah, press for some kind of trial by combat. You allow Love(Family) for squires, or is this particular squire kin? I can see that, although Loyalty(Vassals) might be closer in my humble opinion. The opposing knight might have Love (God) or Love (Church) if he is a true believer, or lack those if he is in it only for patronage and glory. Trials by combat tended to be to the death, if I recall correctly, although I would certainly allow for yielding. However, the big risk here is that by losing, the PKs would also damn themselves by association, so it is a very bad thing.

Heck, probably the best option for the PKs would be to drop on their knees and beg for mercy. They have likely given good service to Earl Roderick and the King during the early Campaign, and if they claim that they thought Merlin was on King's business (a reasonable enough assumption), certainly the Earl would speak up for them. If they have a good rep, that might see them free. And if they are absolved, the squire would be absolved with them, I am thinking, as no devilish plot means no devilish plotters (although it might leave a shadow on the PKs in the eyes of the Church). But they are probably on Uther's 'do not want to see your face again' -list anyway.

Thanks, Morien! My responses, below:




I am assuming from your set-up that the half-fae's origins are known to the accusers?

Oh, yes. He very spectacularly rode into the King's hall and announced himself to the court. So yep, everybody knows.


Well, the obvious question, for my mind, is: Is the half-fae squire a Christian? Is he unharmed by holy water and relics and prayers? If he is, then the 'obvious' solution for the PKs to suggest would be for him to attend mass and do all sorts of things like that to prove that he is not in league with the Devil. I think lots of knights might feel ill-at-ease at the idea of torturing a youth, who, after all, has done nothing wrong except give loyal service to his knight, and most likely has not personally participated in any treacherous behavior other than watch his knight beat up some of the king's knights?

Nope, this one was raised in Elfland and has all the attributes of Child of Faery per BoK&L — and then some!


If he is a non-Christian and harmed by holy things, then he is in big trouble if you are painting the early Church as that militant.

Well, part of my question is, how militant are they, really? Don't know the answer. I searched all of my PENDRAGON books and could find nothing about the Church's stance on Faerie. Part of it is, of course, it all depends on the individual priest and his agenda. I've been reading some about the early church and the thing is, there was a lot of autonomy from the priests and bishops in those early years. But in the scenario Greg flat out says death is a likely punishment if found guilty of treason — even without regard to Faerie matters. The fae-squire could be seen as a scapegoat — easily. He was "in on the deal" even if the PKs were duped.

But how would the Church react? This is what interests me. Would they kill him, or would they keep him for "questioning" to learn more about this "Other World" and whether Faeries were things of God, things of the Devil or something else? Or maybe something less noble — maybe they just want to force him to turn straw into gold, or something. It may all turn on the answer to this question — and how the squire's attitude. Thing is, I've set the squire up as a "Spock" or "Data" character — the guy that doesn't belong. He's honest to a fault and says what's on his mind, without tact — "I'll not swear an oath on some book," he might sneer. Innocent and naive in that way. So this has the potential to be a cool thing in the campaign — I don't want to squander the opportunity.


Then, as the PK, I would try very much to steer the discussion away from tests with holy things, and yeah, press for some kind of trial by combat. You allow Love(Family) for squires, or is this particular squire kin? I can see that, although Loyalty(Vassals) might be closer in my humble opinion.

Love (Family) for squires is a new rule in ENTOURAGE. MAkes since to me. Here's a guy that you live with for maybe six years, someone you depend on for your life. Yeah, he's family. Although in this case, the rule may not apply. This squire is the son of the knight that the PK squired for until he got lost in the arms of a fae maid on the Other Side. Or at least that's what the lad claims. Who knows, since the PK only disappeared in a week before this fully grown young man made his spectacular entrance? But, yeah, the PK would have sort of loyalty since the kid sure resembles his lost mentor.


The opposing knight might have Love (God) or Love (Church) if he is a true believer, or lack those if he is in it only for patronage and glory. Trials by combat tended to be to the death, if I recall correctly, although I would certainly allow for yielding. However, the big risk here is that by losing, the PKs would also damn themselves by association, so it is a very bad thing.

You see my dilemma! I like to use random determination for such things, and I rolled a doozy for the church's champion! The squire's champion is certainly gonna need that Passion roll or he's screwed for sure! Like I said, I probably wouldn't give the Church's champion a Passion roll at first. Not until he was in trouble. That kind of arrogance is one escape valve and gives the once change for my PK to really ring his bell and get him on the ropes. Classic David and Goliath stuff.


Heck, probably the best option for the PKs would be to drop on their knees and beg for mercy. They have likely given good service to Earl Roderick and the King during the early Campaign, and if they claim that they thought Merlin was on King's business (a reasonable enough assumption), certainly the Earl would speak up for them.

Agreed to all. But I don't want them to get off so easily. I want it to be a real nail biter with some scars. Looks like the fae squire's gonna end up in the Church's custody (until he can escape) and his character will be altered forever, no doubt resurfacing at some point...hmm....I like the idea of being tortured for days on end by the continual ringing of church bells...


If they have a good rep, that might see them free. And if they are absolved, the squire would be absolved with them, I am thinking, as no devilish plot means no devilish plotters (although it might leave a shadow on the PKs in the eyes of the Church). But they are probably on Uther's 'do not want to see your face again' -list anyway.

Thanks again for helping me think through this. The best / most satisfying result would be for the PK to win the trial by combat. But it's gonna be very tough. I could just give him a more even match, but that kinda diminishes the drama...


Best,


T.

Thanks, Morien! My responses, below:


My pleasure to help. :)



[quote author=Morien link=topic=1824.msg14568#msg14568 date=1358537088]
Well, the obvious question, for my mind, is: Is the half-fae squire a Christian? Is he unharmed by holy water and relics and prayers?

Nope, this one was raised in Elfland and has all the attributes of Child of Faery per BoK&L — and then some!

*snip*



He's honest to a fault and says what's on his mind, without tact — "I'll not swear an oath on some book," he might sneer. Innocent and naive in that way. So this has the potential to be a cool thing in the campaign — I don't want to squander the opportunity.

Oh, he is so screwed if he does that. I mean, it is obvious proof that since he is harmed by holy things, he is in league with the devil. And if he goes as far as to sneer at the Bible... Heck, were I playing a christian knight, I probably be willing to wash my hands off him at that point. However, presuming that the PK in question is pagan and has more reckless courage than sense, sure, let him make it about trial by combat.

Even if he loses, as the GM, you always have the possibility of the Earl or some other churchman arguing that the PKs were just dupes, enspelled to help in this infernal plot, and hence blameless. As for the fae, I don't know. Very little actual historical cases of faes getting caught and condemned. :P Burning is always a crowd-pleaser. Drowned in a barrel of holy water. Just beheaded with a sword. I don't really see the Church, especially the early Church, going for torture or that kind of 'trying to benefit from satanic spells'. I could, in principle, see a 'fae-hunting' organization, which would have an interest in studying what harms a fae, but frankly, they already know that holy things are efficacious, as is cold iron (I think, don't have the book). So clearly, God is great and His power obvious. Why mess around with that satanic spawn?

If you wish to reintroduce the fae later, here is what I would do, assuming that the PK loses the trial by combat. The fae is taken into custody, perhaps a high tower, locked inside with a Bible to do some soul-searching. Can't hurt to give it that chance. But then, in the morning, there is no one inside. Perhaps a black feather. And a guardsman who swears he saw one raven flying into the tower, and two exiting, just as the dawn arose. The boy's mom to the rescue, since obviously, living with humans was NOT a good idea.

Ha! Very nice. I too had thought about him vanishing but the added touch of the mother is too good.

I can bring him back in the Anarchy, maybe — after Uther's gone and no king sits the throne. He did have an agenda of his own (maybe) — he might just have to defer it to a few years down the road. He would certainly have a Loyalty Passion now for the PK knight who went to battle for him — even if he gets trounced. Maybe learned a smidgeon of humility from such a selfless act.

I like it!

Thanks, again. Very generous of you. Have some Glory!



T.

Just some thoughts about how militant the church is?

I would make a difference between britisch and roman christians. The first have more links with the old druid ways and thus may be more open and acceptable of fae. the roman church is probably more militant in that aspect. also did everyone believe him when he said he was fae? to be honest everyone can claim it, but is he really. A good path for the knights is to claim that the boy is just young and does not know better (this is of course deceitful if they believe the boy).

As for punishments I do not think torture is the way of the church yet. But you can either have the boy locked up (like Morien said) or maybe even have him beheaded, and than pick up his head and walk away (like the Green Knight).

I would make a difference between britisch and roman christians. The first have more links with the old druid ways and thus may be more open and acceptable of fae. the roman church is probably more militant in that aspect.

Agreed.


also did everyone believe him when he said he was fae?

Oh, yes. His strange armor, wrought like a fish's scales in jet and gold was a dead giveaway. Not to mention the violet fae horse!


As for punishments I do not think torture is the way of the church yet. But you can either have the boy locked up (like Morien said) or maybe even have him beheaded, and than pick up his head and walk away (like the Green Knight).


I sort of like the idea of "torturing" him with church bells — long hours of the bells ringing in Tintagel. We know there's a church there — I don't know if the bells are anachronistic or not, but hey, it's poetic license!


Best,


T.

Well, what the heck is he doing in human lands in the first place, if he can't stand the ringing of Church bells? I can't see the Church deciding to torture him, although I can see 'exorcism' or some such, priest reading from the bible or ordering the bells rung, to prevent the fae from using infernal magic, if condemned. However, that would make fleeing much harder.

However, I also can't see the Church deciding to muffle its bells for the sesibilities of this suspected devil-spawn. If he cringes at the bells, that is his boo-boo, and certainly not any reason for the Church to veer from its sacred duties!

one observation.
This is an NPC, yes?

This seems like a lot invested in a non canon NPC Squire. The PK's story sounds like it is in danger of being overshadowed by his.

That said, I am not in the game, I don't know how it is playing out.

one observation.
This is an NPC, yes?

This seems like a lot invested in a non canon NPC Squire. The PK's story sounds like it is in danger of being overshadowed by his,

That's a fair point, yeah. But there was a lot swirling around here where the PC was involved. My question here was just to gather some opinions on some specific plot points.

If you think about this as a hero side kick being in trouble—setting up something for the hero to do, it may help explain. As is it, the fae squire was all set to be the scapegoat for the whole Merlin thing, and he called for trial by combat. In rides his PK knight (what's a better word here, "master"? "Lord"? neither feel right). Who, very heroically defeated one of Uther's best knight's, fair and square. It was actually very amazing, as the PK is a newly minted beginning character. I expected him to get trounced but the NPC champion rolled less that 6, like, four times in a row. Even the NPC's Passion couldn't salvage the thing, as the PK knight was impassioned, too. It was as heroic as anything that's happened in my campaign thus far.

I only have two players, so I try to create a very rich network on NPC's to try to get the players more invested in their characters. So, yeah — squires, brothers, wives, mothers. There's a very elaborate story with this fae squire; I'll have to go into more detail when I get a chance.


T.


M.