I'd like to collect any new information that anyone has about the KAP County of Salisbury

By KAP Salisbury I mean:
legendary data from or said to take place in the medieval era (800-1500)
Time
Historical events from the same period
Thus a ghost story from 1712 is not appropriate
Place
Historical Wiltshire south of the Dike

The ideal would be to send me, offline please:
1. The data
2. Where you got the data
3. Game stats, if you have done them
4. Your name, or if it is not your original discovery, the name of the person you got it from

For instance, I remember reading on this forum quite a while ago about a local legend of a giant maggot hereabouts?

Purpose: for publication

Greg, I have a 19th cen. book on Old Sarum and Salisbury. I'll try to mine it for some good bits ASAP.


T.

Make it so!

Greg here's a place to start, also a 19th century book ;). it contains a list of all the surviving historical resources for each English county.
Wiltshire is on pages 113-114. I could give you some of the secret history of Wiltshire, but not being family you're blood is unworthy ;)

http://archive.org/stream/guidetovictoriah00doubuoft#page/112/mode/2up

Dug up a couple of other interesting books over the weekend. The first goes into great detail of the geography of Wiltshire.

Edward Hutton, The Highways and Byways in Wiltshire http://archive.org/details/highwaysbywaysi00hutt

The second is far less interesting, except for it's treatment of the royal forests starting on page 80, Alice Drydon, Memorials of Old Wiltshire

http://archive.org/stream/memorialsofoldwi00dryd#page/80/mode/2up

Both are light easy reads for the historically lazy, the first even has plenty of illustrations ;)

The illustrations show houses and cottages of wattle and daub with thatched roofs. These had basket like walls (wattle) covered with clay mixed with chopped straw, the outside walls were whitewashed with lime to help preserve them. Thatched roofs were occasionally taken down and the rotted thatch used as a fertilizer. when they were set on fire, say by despicable Saxon raiders or noble Viking tourists ;) they would both crackle and pop, as the straw that thatch was made of had hallow stems that would heat up and explode. This was most useful as it would wake the inmates and they would try to save their valuables, making it unnecessary to hunt for them or for ones new slaves ;D

Thank you Snaggle

Regrettably, I've got access to most of this information already. Maybe we can use some illos in places, though.

Interesting there is the utter lack of maps!

--Greg





Greg here's a place to start, also a 19th century book ;). it contains a list of all the surviving historical resources for each English county.
Wiltshire is on pages 113-114. I could give you some of the secret history of Wiltshire, but not being family you're blood is unworthy ;)

http://archive.org/stream/guidetovictoriah00doubuoft#page/112/mode/2up

Dug up a couple of other interesting books over the weekend. The first goes into great detail of the geography of Wiltshire.

Edward Hutton, The Highways and Byways in Wiltshire http://archive.org/details/highwaysbywaysi00hutt

The second is far less interesting, except for it's treatment of the royal forests starting on page 80, Alice Drydon, Memorials of Old Wiltshire

http://archive.org/stream/memorialsofoldwi00dryd#page/80/mode/2up

Both are light easy reads for the historically lazy, the first even has plenty of illustrations ;)

The illustrations show houses and cottages of wattle and daub with thatched roofs. These had basket like walls (wattle) covered with clay mixed with chopped straw, the outside walls were whitewashed with lime to help preserve them. Thatched roofs were occasionally taken down and the rotted thatch used as a fertilizer. when they were set on fire, say by despicable Saxon raiders or noble Viking tourists ;) they would both crackle and pop, as the straw that thatch was made of had hallow stems that would heat up and explode. This was most useful as it would wake the inmates and they would try to save their valuables, making it unnecessary to hunt for them or for ones new slaves ;D

Greg I was doing research on the 'Testa de Nevill". that great villain King Henry III married his sister, Isobel, to emperor Frederick II of the Holy Roman empire (Germany). He collected 2 marks per knights fee to pay her dowry (30,000 marks = £20,000). I've come across the Wiltshire info from 1235-1236, meaning I've come across a list of the actual knights and how rich they were. It's in Latin which unless I'm greatly mistaken you don't have even a basic proficiency in. Are you interested in seeing: an English list of the names; what they paid; their wealth in manors. I would also be digging up their armorial bearings and mottoes out of Burk. This is from the time of countess Ella of Salisbury. The lists also includes the stewards whom actually paid = names of household knights for Wiltshire and I would be digging up their armorial bearings and mottoes too. doing this would be a lot of work on my part so are you interested in seeing three projects:

#1 the list of the chief knights (some of them are actually noblemen) with their arms and mottoes;
#2 the list of stewards and their armorial bearings and mottoes;
#3 a pseudo noble society for Wiltshire that I would create using single names of mixed Cymric and French ( I was working on my own list of old French female names when Taliesin posted his Cymric ones, and am planning to send him a list of 300 old French female names and 300 masculine names to combine with his). The goals with this besides creating a richer Salisbury, would be to allow our knights to serve Camelot as shire knights in Wiltshire and make it possible that they might also occasionally be household knights for King Arthur, even if not knights of the round table, to get them to spend some of their winter phase attribute and skills boosts on actual socialization rather than personal level climbing (which leads too much skill and attribute inflation). List hopeful about the last as you don't like my house rules.

Countess Ela is a pretty interesting woman all by herself. Came across this on her http://www.chitterne.com/history/ela.html

and this map and timeline http://www.chitterne.com/history/index.html#ela

I would be interested in seeing this, but only as a curiosity
I am doing this myself for Salisbury, and its done for 485
It wouldn't be used f=directly
and it would not likely have a big influence at this point either

But I'd love to know the actual source to look at
My Latin's probably good enough to read what I want to know
and if not
there is always a translation program that is good enough



Greg I was doing research on the 'Testa de Nevill". that great villain King Henry III married his sister, Isobel, to emperor Frederick II of the Holy Roman empire (Germany). He collected 2 marks per knights fee to pay her dowry (30,000 marks = £20,000). I've come across the Wiltshire info from 1235-1236, meaning I've come across a list of the actual knights and how rich they were. It's in Latin which unless I'm greatly mistaken you don't have even a basic proficiency in. Are you interested in seeing: an English list of the names; what they paid; their wealth in manors. I would also be digging up their armorial bearings and mottoes out of Burk. This is from the time of countess Ella of Salisbury. The lists also includes the stewards whom actually paid = names of household knights for Wiltshire and I would be digging up their armorial bearings and mottoes too. doing this would be a lot of work on my part so are you interested in seeing three projects:

#1 the list of the chief knights (some of them are actually noblemen) with their arms and mottoes;
#2 the list of stewards and their armorial bearings and mottoes;
#3 a pseudo noble society for Wiltshire that I would create using single names of mixed Cymric and French ( I was working on my own list of old French female names when Taliesin posted his Cymric ones, and am planning to send him a list of 300 old French female names and 300 masculine names to combine with his). The goals with this besides creating a richer Salisbury, would be to allow our knights to serve Camelot as shire knights in Wiltshire and make it possible that they might also occasionally be household knights for King Arthur, even if not knights of the round table, to get them to spend some of their winter phase attribute and skills boosts on actual socialization rather than personal level climbing (which leads too much skill and attribute inflation). List hopeful about the last as you don't like my house rules.

Countess Ela is a pretty interesting woman all by herself. Came across this on her http://www.chitterne.com/history/ela.html

and this map and timeline http://www.chitterne.com/history/index.html#ela

Here you go Greg.

General note: the Kap knightly income per fee of £6, is based on 12th century income, by the mid 13th century these fees had assarted enough land that they had doubled their acreage and income to about £12. These knight fees would have really been squire's fees, under the contemporary system of a knight is someone with a fee worth £20 (later raised to £40, but the money had been very debased by then).



SOURCE: Liber feodorum/The book of fees/Testa de Nevill


http://archive.org/details/liberfeodorumboo01grea

In book references to Wiltshire ( in Latin):
1.1 pages 11-13;
1.2 pages 341-342;
1.3 pages 420-424;
1.4 pages 585-587.


Introductory sections (in English)
1.1 A.D. 1198, pages 1-2;
1.2 Various dates, pages 335-336;
1.3 A.D. 1235-1236, pages 405-417;
1.4 A.D. 1236, pages,575-576.

I was using this for some background on the Noble families and for some of the French names for the list for Taliesin. 'The abbey roll, with some account of Norman lineages' by the Duchess of Cleveland. Her account of Countess Ela's family origins are disputed, but that would make no difference to KAP, especially with no surnames used.

http://www.archive.org/stream/battleabbeyrollw01battuoft#page/n5/mode/2up
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Found an additional source, much more detailed about Wiltshire (all Latin).Wiltshire is covered on pages 199-298. It contains a complete list of the hundreds
http://books.google.com/books?id=TToRAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepag e&q&f=false

This might be new news on stonhenge
http://archaeologynewsnetwork.blogspot.com/2013/03/stonehenge-started-as-graveyard-says.html#.UUYj3xysh8E

Greg theirs always been a question I have always wanted to ask why did you pick Salisbury as the default for all the events table's and pk's manors etc. I am just curious why you choose it, over other Earldom's?

Greg theirs always been a question I have always wanted to ask why did you pick Salisbury as the default for all the events table's and pk's manors etc. I am just curious why you choose it, over other Earldom's?

The choice was made quite a while ago, but what I recall is these reasons:
1. It did not exist in real life as a county
2. It is near to many major actions (Badon, Camlann)
3. It is near many interesting places (Camelot, Stonehenge, Ambrosius' Abbey)
4. It has a cool city & castle

I thought maybe it was based off of family history like mine was the Earl of Hedges only existed a little while in history and seems to die with either the one who earned the honor died and was taken back to the crown, or the title was inherited so long as they served in thier fathers foot steps ie the local Shriff seems the hedges name was originally d lacy and was the sheriff of Nottingham during the time of Ivanhoe, robin hood and King Richard the lion hearted in real life . He choose to side with prince john and ploted to steal the Huntington estates by marring the old lords daughter where he took his pleasure from her with out marriage, this is where made marrying came in she goes tell robin his siter has been violated by the sheriff where by he rescues her, however she bore him a son 9 months later and when Richard returns he hung him for his crimes against the crown along with prince John and all his other knights. However King Richard refused to say traitor all of thier offspring instead he took them in and instead of killing them brought them up by squiring them to other knights sense he and others were all bastard sons they could not inherit any lands from any of thier parents estates and so was to have to try and achive a land grant thier dedication and duty of a house knight. Upon archiving knight hood made sheriff of Hereford and given the title of The Earl of Hedges Later on and the coat of arms we see for hedges was the result of this creation of the Earldom by king Richard. according to the research i found on my family. so I can of mixed into to my kap history sense their is not much their on Hereford. why I picked Hereford and the forest of dean to develop for me. Later The family was moved to the County of Cork, was a title in the Peerage of Ireland. Where the title was changed to the Earl of Bantry in 1797.

The Sheriff of Nottingham is an important figure in the legend of Robin Hood. The holder of the office of Nottingham's Sheriff, it is his task to capture outlaws such as Robin Hood, either to ensure the safety of trade routes through Sherwood Forest, or to keep them from poaching the King's deer. In some stories, the Sheriff of Nottingham is portrayed as having a lecherous desire for Robin Hood's lady, Maid Marian. He is widely considered to be the principal villain of the Robin Hood stories, appearing frequently alongside such enemies of Robin Hood as Sir Guy of Gisbourne or Prince John (though rarely both).
The legends are generally set far from Nottingham, this fits the historical position of High Sheriff of Nottinghamshire, Derbyshire and the Royal Forests (from 1068 until 1568). In the film Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves, the Sheriff's influence has grown so great he attempts to take control of the throne, due to his power outside the region of Nottingham.
In some versions, the Sheriff is more a cowardly schemer while his assistant, Sir Guy of Gisbourne, is a more competent and determined physical threat to Robin. In other versions, the Sheriff answers to Prince John, who is the main villain.
The historical sheriff upon which the stories are based may have been William de Wendenal, Roger de Laci, or William Brewer.

I am descended from Roger de Laci's basterd son so da speak of lol

Julie my girl friend uses her real family history of Huntington to be her realm in KAP. She says is really the only rpg she says she will ever play because to her its the best and the rest to her is just dumb, however she did play in my lord of the rings campaign and loved it but she said that's because LOTR was as cool as KAP LOL. any way that's why we chose my relam of hereford and use Nottingham and Huntington the way we do. I am also looking foreword to the new source book or game thee characters in them that was given in a poll recently what would you like to see I voted Ivanhoe all the way.

the hedges name was originally d lacy and was the sheriff of Nottingham during the time of Ivanhoe, robin hood and King Richard the lion hearted in real life . He choose to side with prince john and ploted to steal the Huntington estates by marring the old lords daughter where he took his pleasure from her with out marriage, this is where made marrying came in she goes tell robin his siter has been violated by the sheriff where by he rescues her, however she bore him a son 9 months later and when Richard returns he hung him for his crimes against the crown along with prince John and all his other knights. However King Richard refused to say traitor all of thier offspring instead he took them in and instead of killing them brought them up by squiring them to other knights sense he and others were all bastard sons they could not inherit any lands from any of thier parents estates and so was to have to try and achive a land grant thier dedication and duty of a house knight. Upon archiving knight hood made sheriff of Hereford and given the title of The Earl of Hedges Later on and the coat of arms we see for hedges was the result of this creation of the Earldom by king Richard.

Ou la la, a fellow Frank (miscalled Norman 8) While your ancestor was being naughty, mine was fighting and dying on crusade with Richard. do you have links to your ancestors - I'm still collecting real French Medieval names and looking for some weird non-standard ones,especially female ones?

Still Looking and piecing together my family tree but i do have of my parentage form Constantine down to me ready to go just filling in the final go's and trying to see who their offspring married.

The historical sheriff upon which the stories are based may have been William de Wendenal, Roger de Laci, or William Brewer.

You might find this interesting for your setting so you can get the robin hood setting right.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheriff_Nottingham

and this gives you the parentage of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Laci

and of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Brewer_(justice)

Sheriff of Nottingham (position) can be found here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheriff_of_Nottingham_(position)!