For the last four years I've been running a Pendragon campaign set not in Arthur's Britain, but in my own world of Fiannakai. A fantasy world which seems to adapt very well to the Pendragon system.

Has anyone else experimented with adapting Pendragon to their own worlds?

And to Greg, like d20, do you ever see a time where you might license out the system?

I have used the pendragon system in different fantasy settigs. Everyone is still a knight however, but the Gm has a lot of fun making thieves and other warriors as well, and If u have 4th edition the players can be quite a few different " classes". If I were to run Pendragon in a fantasy setting again I think I would choose Glorantha!!!!!!!!!!!!! It just seems very appropriate.

I keep feel like using the Pendragon rules (modified) for a dynastic Legend of the Five Rings game. Just switch around the religions, and chivalry to bushido, and you're pretty good to go. L5R also has a ridiculously well developed timeline, if you want to go GPC, with some hundred year empty gaps in it, if you prefered the freedom of the Anarchy period.

Of course, since I haven't got around to using the Pendragon rules to play Pendragon, I think that has the priority when I have the time. :)

There are three adaptations that used to be on the net:
PenDragon Pass (Dragon Pass/Glorantha)
plus both a Feudal Japan and a Feudal China adaptation.

To do it right, L5R requires magic. Magicians are TOO prevalent in the setting. 4th ed has that neat magic system... change sleep from weeks to days, and ban talismans except for Asahina Shugenja (and then limit them to no more than their magic limit.

Corruption could easily be handled as a pseudo-passion.

Unfortunately I don't have 4th edition... I'd probably just stitch in bits of the actual L5R rules. Which are good, but a bit too mechanical for my tastes, a bit too abuseable. Pendragon is a lot more streamlined, and there's less moving parts for players to make munchkin characters out of.

Corruption as a 'passion' is a great idea though. :)

I have never been that interested in using pendragon for other games, for me the feel of the game is too closely indentified with the Arthurian setting (though the personality trait system did get grafted on to a few games).

One friend did run a game set in the universe of Dune using Pendragon, which was interesting.

I was starting a fantasy game a few years ago to playtest an adventure for d20 that I had been hired to write. However, I couldn't bring myself to actually run d20/D&D so I was adapting it to a slightly modified version of Pendragon. That game fell apart for unrelated reasons though and I playtested with a different system later.

I've given some thought to running a Robin Hood game using Pendragon.

I've given some thought to running a Robin Hood game using Pendragon.


I'm sure that would work - like the legends of Arthur, this has a strong moral code running through it which would fit the personality system well. Similarly, I've always thought that if I were to run a game set in Middle earth, Pendragon would be an obvious choice.

My friends and I started several years back adapting the system to GRRM's A Song of Ice and Fire and it works rather well. Then I began work on adapting it to the setting of the novel I'm working on and four years later we have a fantastic campaign that's seen some of our most memorable gaming experiences.

I've tried a few times to run D&D but to be honest, Pendragon by far is a better system. The personality traits enforce true role-playing and at times can lead to some very interesting storylines that may never have developed if the player did what they had first wanted to.

We started with two squires, Yamen and Shoan Havard, who earned their knighthood by saving their lords while on a hunting trip. The hunting party was tracking a white stag set loose into the woods but instead ran afoul a hill giant with a very angry temper. The squire's courage saved the day and they were knighted as a result.

Shortly afterwards the brothers were involved in the beginnings of a war between their lands and a neighbours, and both had to choose sides. Yamen chose duty and served unfailingly his Earl and is now known as the Daystar for the flash of his silver and azure armour and his almost womanish good looks. Shoan on the other hand betrayed his oath of fealty as he was sent on a mission to slay the daughter of their enemy but instead found himself enamored of her. He chose honour over love of family and loyalty to lord.

As it stands now, both brothers are fighting on opposite sides of the conflict and it's been an action-packed rollercoaster!

Unfortunately I don't have 4th edition... I'd probably just stitch in bits of the actual L5R rules. Which are good, but a bit too mechanical for my tastes, a bit too abuseable. Pendragon is a lot more streamlined, and there's less moving parts for players to make munchkin characters out of.

Corruption as a 'passion' is a great idea though. :)


4th ed core is available as PDF from DTRPG for cheap : http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?products_id=1415 $14.98
(it went up... I paid $9.95)

The magic system is worth it, if you need a consistent baseline to work from that ties to the trait/passion system.

I keep feel like using the Pendragon rules (modified) for a dynastic Legend of the Five Rings game. Just switch around the religions, and chivalry to bushido, and you're pretty good to go. L5R also has a ridiculously well developed timeline, if you want to go GPC, with some hundred year empty gaps in it, if you prefered the freedom of the Anarchy period.


The funny thing is that John Wick (L5R 1e author) is a self-professed fan of both Mr. Stafford and Pendragon. IIRC, he has flat-out stated that one of his intentions while writing L5R was doing Pendragon in fantasy Japan/Asia. The fact that Pendragon's system probably does more justice to his setting than the latest edition of the game (L5R 3e Revised) is quite amusing, IMO.

Eduardo Penna

I don't know Dragon_Blooded... L5R3E does a lot of justice to the setting. It's quite playable, and very high magic, and the dice mechanic really does create a much more epic feel than KAP does.

KAP is excellent for low-magic to moderate magic settings, simply by adjusting the price from weeks to days or down to very low by adjusting it to months.

L5R has a wonderful magic system; the setting is very high magic, and L5R 3E really makes it shine. Different engines for different feels; system matters. (2E was not so hot, due to the different roll mechanic nerfing characters.)

Pendragon is such a great system I've considered running any number of campaigns in it.

I think in Land of Giants it suggests running a campaign where Saxon warriors battle Viking invaders, in many ways a replay of what happened centuries earlier with the old invaders now the new defenders. I don't think it gives much in the way of details though. You could do a similar thing set in Ireland fighting the English.
I've considered doing a grand centuries long campaign where the players begin fighting Romans, then later Saxons, followed by Vikings and eventually Normans, with a possible trip to fight to in the service of Charlemagne against the Moors and others along the way. It's plausible, although extremely unlikely, that a few prominent (later noble) families could survive all those invasions by successfully coming to terms and being acculturated into the invaders. Unlikely, but still at least a least slightly possible.

Another, obvious setting would be the historic middle ages. The years after 1300 saw the dominance of an idealized form of chivalry. I know of at least once instance where an invading army was challenged to a tournament instead of a battle. In many ways (and I believe Greg has said this before) the later medieval knights were engaged in a very deadly version of live-action role playing.
The 100 Years War is probably the most obvious setting, but plenty of others are possible.

I've even considered porting the virtues system into other systems as a means of quantifying and encouraging roleplaying a characters values. You could obviously change the list of virtues to support the campaign. Feudal Japan would be an obvious setting that could use such a system, but you could use it well in a completely modern setting, especially if you replaced religions with something more vague, like 'worldview.' Imagine a campaign where a evangelical character, whose underlined virtues are piety and faith, is adventuring and arguing a decidedly secular character who values and justice and reason.

I'd like to echo the suggestion that Pendragon would be an obvious choice for a Middle Earth campaign. For several years now, I have been musing about such a campaign, but apart from a couple of con oneshots, I haven't done much about it.

But the comparisons are pretty obvious. There are the good guys (knights of Gondor/riders of Rohan) and the bad guys (Dunlednings, orcs). Honor is important. Good guys have a rather high moral code, which gets us to the trait system.

What causes some problems to model is the successes of the lightly armored heroes. Sure, you can claim that Aragorn has Sword 30 at the very least, with some additional boni from Anduril, and then add +5 from being unarmored. That should let him cleave through orcs without problems.

Once you get to Armor 12 + shield Gondorian knights, this isn't such a big deal against 4d6 orcs. Gondorians can take a hit and keep on smacking the orcs away, until finally brought down by numbers. Sounds about right.

As long as people are playing normal men (i.e. Rohirrim or non-Numenorean Gondorians), the age doesn't pose a problem. But once you take Numenorean ancestry into account and let people get to say double the age, then you will have to consider the Winter Phase pretty closely.

My favorite time periods for a Middle Earth Pendragon campaign...
1430-50 TA Kin-strife in Gondor.
1600s TA in the North, with Cardolan having splintered into these warring princedoms. Lots of opportunities for skilled, ambitious men to forge their own destiny.

Give the "religious bonus" as armor, and double the chivalry bonus when armor is under 6.

I tried an alternate Pendragon setting once. The characters began as young knights in service to Richard the Lionhearted. Richard was off to the crusades and, as always, desperate for money. He set these young knights to track down rumor of buried treasure, pagan hoards, ghostly artifacts and/or saintly relics with the aim of funding or aiding the crusades. It seemed an enjoyable idea, especially given my passion for Norman and Angevin history....but it rapidly began to feel like the exploits of Sir Scooby and the Knights of Doo. I still think it is a valid idea, but the group dynamic was all wrong.... We ended up playing Paranoia.

Having read a great many RPG rules books over the past 25 years, I have to say that I really keep finding traces of Pendragon ideas in the most unusual places. I feel that the game system of Pendragon has had quite a visible impact on the game designing industry as a whole, even though sadly the game itself has never become the big seller it is worthy of.

But it warms my heart that Pendragon is still here, has a nice little following and is getting better than ever (and hopefully now it's getting republished!).

Having read a great many RPG rules books over the past 25 years, I have to say that I really keep finding traces of Pendragon ideas in the most unusual places. I feel that the game system of Pendragon has had quite a visible impact on the game designing industry as a whole, even though sadly the game itself has never become the big seller it is worthy of.

But it warms my heart that Pendragon is still here, has a nice little following and is getting better than ever (and hopefully now it's getting republished!).



AMEN

After the fiasco when I tried to run Pendragon with my group (documented with a link here under "GPC gone wrong"), they voted to play in a fictional fantasy world, but pleaded to keep using the Pendragon rules. They love the rules, but not the setting. So I am in the middle of adapting Pendragon to a setting that is not exclusively knight characters and has non-human races.

I considered the 4th edition magic rules, but they seem to be on the one hand very vague regarding the effects of spells while on the other hand requiring a lot of record keeping about acquiring magical resources and the cost of spells. My group would not handle either of these very well.

I have looked for the "Pendragon Pass" rules, but could only find a summary on line, and links to an out of print periodical where it was first printed.

So I am having to wing it on my own.

I am trying to create a system where minor subtle magic is common, but powerful magic is very rare and expensive. Like Runequest. Almost anyone cast cast a minor curse or a spell to boost their strength, but not ""visible magic" like magic missiles. I'm trying to stick to spells that appear in mythology or classic heroic fantasy- spells that appear in Arthurian stories, or Grimm's faerie tales, or the 1001 Nights, or maybe old Conan stories.

So far I have the following:

Common spells:
Blessing
Breeze (outdoors only)
Charm
Curse
Deflect Missile
Healing (not usable during combat)
Legerdemain
Prophecy
Protection

Advanced spells:
Change Weather
Disappear
Fly
Hypnotize
Petrify
Remove Curse
Seal Door
Shapechange
Transform other (turn enemies into frogs, etc)

I would appreciate any suggestions for more spells, especially if suggestions are accompanied by references to the myths or classic fantasy stories where the they appeared.

Cruel,

I can think of a couple off hand from LotR.

Common
Light - casts a minor magic on the end of a staff to provide light equal to a torch
Fireworks - self explanatory, great for the kids, or to awe locals
Perfect shot - come on, you didn't think Legolas could shoot like that without a little help
Send Message - Allows one to send a message on the wind or using another surrogate

Advanced
Imprison - Think of Gandalf being held by Sarumen
Push - Allows you to move very large objects
Flaming Sword (or whip, or whatever) - Again, think of Gandalf against the Balrog - I know, that was his sword but someone had to enchant it
Mass charm - this is where Sauron's use of the rings comes into play - not only did he entrap the men wearing them, he could charm whole populations with his magic

You know, one setting I've always wanted to apply the Pendragon rules to are the Crusades. I think that could be a truly exceptional gaming experience!

You know, one setting I've always wanted to apply the Pendragon rules to are the Crusades. I think that could be a truly exceptional gaming experience!


Once upon a time, when the game was still owned by Green Knight, I volunteered some time to help develop Pendragon Online, which was intended to be a Pendragon MUD. If I recall, the people who were trying to develop the game engine code were sent an electronic copy of the Book of Knights, in MS Word format. I don't remember why, as I had a couple of print copies of the book already, but the point of the boring story is that I was given a copy of the Book of Knights in an editable format.

The temptation was too much, and I set about converting the Book of Knights to serve as a rulebook for a campaign about the Crusades. The system suited the sort of Crusades campaign my group wanted to play very well, but we found that playing in a "realistic" Kingdom of Jerusalem in the late 12th century wasn't as fun as playing in Arthurian Britain - there wasn't the same scope for going off as knights errant on quests. So we went back to vanilla Pendragon. ;D

That said, quests were much more of a staple of our Pendragon campaigns at that point then they are now - the advent of 5th edition and the GPC book filled me with ideas and inspiration for a more political/war focussed campaign (esp. the Anarchy Period), and I think I could make a Crusades campaign work better now...

Hmmm I wonder if I can find my "Book of Crusaders" ;D

For some odd reason my campaigns in just about any "fantasy" setting end up being more politically and militarily driven. My bent for history, I guess. So a Crusades setting just seems a natural. If you should find your rules, you have at least one chap out here who is quite interested!

There's just something about the Crusades.... I've never been to the Holy Land, though I would love to go, but there is an atmosphere in all of my research resources that I find very compelling.

I tried to add a bit of a "crusader" flair to one of my KAP campaigns by having the pks make a pilgrimage to Jerusalem in order to find a cure for an NPC lord with leprosy. They ended up in so much trouble in Messina that they didn't get any further. And all three pks generated passions of Hate (sea travel) after the two channel crossings. (I'm a sailor, lived for years on my sloop in Alaska, and bring a certain realism to any seafaring my players may attempt...)

Well, I am sure it is on a dead hard disk, but maybe I'll find a back-up. But it wasn't difficult to do - I was just able to do it in a nice format comparable to the "Book of Knights" because I had an editable version of that rulebook.

I didn't change any of the rules per se, I just changed the cultures and homelands so that you could generate crusaders of various nationalities and backgrounds etc. It wasn't very well researched, and now I would probably go about things with a lot more care. I would certainly include rules for Muslim player characters, which I didn't at the time. I now see Saladin as a very chivalrous character, whereas I didn't back then (I wasn't as well read!).

Thinking of it, I am pretty sure that another reason for abandoning the Crusades conversion was that the player characters too often exhibited the wrong sort of religious fanaticism. I think that capturing a realistic religious tone is really important for such a campaign, and I don't think our group (myself included) could make it work at that point. I am not sure I could do it now, either, for that matter. Player characters seemed to hover around two extremes at the time - the complete cynics for whom crusading was an excuse for plunder and pillage, and the complete fanatics for whom crusading was about killing as many non-believers as possible. Both of those are stereotypes and neither seem particularly accurate to me, so I didn't think our campaign was going to have legs!

The system itself though, was beautiful, as always. :)

Cruel,

I can think of a couple off hand from LotR.

The system used in Decipher's LotR RPG would be a reasonably good fit for a "high fantasy" Pendragon game, too.

Many of the spells were designed to be subtle and would fit in well with Pendragon. Some spells could remove fear, bolter troops and evoke awe. So Gandalf worked more like a character who could bolter the resolve of others rather than a walking artillery (D&D wizard).

Generally, mages had to make Stamina rolls (CON) against a difficulty set by the spell to cast a spell and/or avoid getting fatigued.

Mages could "take picks" (get experience) is certain types of magic, making them better at some spells than other, much like in KAP4.

The system had some nice tweaks, too. Mages could turn some spells into abilties that wouldjust work, without needing a cast roll.

I could probably dig out my LotR book and see what might be useful for a "high fantasy" Pendragon variant.

Really? Decipher's CODA system, used in the LotR and Star Trek RPGs, always seemed to me to be quite broken from a mechanics perspective. I only ever ran CODA Star Trek, and found that it was trivial for characters to turn themselves into combat gods far too easily. The only thing that kept the system working in Star Trek was the setting imposing rules of behaviour which kept things sane. The experience was enough to deter me from playing CODA LotR.

On the other hand, the Pendragon system for LotR I can imagine working quite well.

I'm playing in a CODA Lord of the Rings campaign at the moment. While the basic rules system could be improved, the magic is done in a very evocative manner. There are a few spells that I don't like, but 99% of them are fantastic and would work well as inspiration for what you want.

Really? Decipher's CODA system, used in the LotR and Star Trek RPGs, always seemed to me to be quite broken from a mechanics perspective.

I only ever ran CODA Star Trek, and found that it was trivial for characters to turn themselves into combat gods far too easily. The only thing that kept the system working in Star Trek was the setting imposing rules of behavior which kept things sane. The experience was enough to deter me from playing CODA LotR.


I tend to agree. CODA tends to escalate must faster than it's predecessor (ICON). I ran a CODA LotR campaign and got depressed with how easily the players could (and did) fall into D&D mode. In fact LotR probably escalates worse/faster than CODA Trek.

That said, the magic system is something else. Rather than focusing on flash-bang offensive spells, most of the magic in the game is more subtle or just neat. There are spells for inspiring troops and making cloaks weather resistant. Like Caralion mentioned, some of the spells are off (Lightning) but most of them are more colorful than overpowering. For example, the Healing Spell, rather than instantly restoring hit points, just adds a +8 bonus (about +13 in Pendragon terms) to a character's skill. Certainly nice, but not something that will ruin the feel of the setting.

Mages in the game are encouraged to solve things with their wits and social skills more than through sheer magical power. Something that reminded me of Pendragon, where mages pay for magic with lots of preparation, aging rolls, or long naps.

Mages can pull off a lot of really cool effects (and the effects are similar too and organized much like the magic in KAP4) but magic is much more than just a club to bludgeon the monsters with.

Out of the entire system, it is probably the thing that is probably closest to capturing the "Middle Earth" feel.

That sounds like a really good magic system for Middle-Earth, and it sounds like you're right and it would work nicely in a high fantasy version of Pendragon. I wouldn't bring the rest of CODA with it though :)

To malchya and anyone else interested in a Crusades game, I just noticed this preview of a to be released book called "Deus Vult": http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?products_id=77963

To tie it back into Pendragon (via the designer)... it appears to be a setting for RuneQuest II!

To malchya and anyone else interested in a Crusades game, I just noticed this preview of a to be released book called "Deus Vult": http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?products_id=77963


and for who read French, there are a great and "old" RPG Miles Christi edited by SPSR... Players are all Templar's knights... The background is the Orient XIIth century...

A friend of mine was busy with a Charlemange version, with KAP rules.
He even play tested it with me.
He wanted to publish it via Green Knight, but they were not interested.

Was that mentioned on the KAP mailing list? I remember some conversation about a Charlemagne conversion.

Yup!
And he playtested it at Bacharach, a few years back

Looking at this 2 years on, The solution I see for it is just use the 4E magic system, but only require sleep for personal life force used.

See, by allowing the channeling of the ambient life force of a place or the day to not cause sleep owed, one REALLY ramps up the frequency, but not the power.

Likewise, allowing a new talisman type, the Sleep Talisman, to store "preparations" - for each 10 points of "power" in it, it will soak up a week's worth of sleep. But it requires 2 weeks prep for each 10 points bound into it, and there's no talent to roll... so it's done using Religion.

Oh, and allow each apprentice present to soak a week of sleep owed off, not just the first apprentice...

Hey everyone I have read a lot of your posts here talking about various settings and using kap as the base rule system.

I personalty feel the the system for KAP should stay the same as an Arthurian RPG using it for other settings to me makes it loose it's uniqueness to the genera!

with that said I would probably use it for the alternate settings I feel would be KAP genra settings and would work very nicely

Sir George the Dragon Slayer (Where 1 person plays the knight 1 plays a bard to chronicle his adventures one is a priest to heal him and one plays his squire and the rest plays as foot men or archer's) Sort of rpg-ing 1 knight and his routine.

an epic story of In 383 Magnus Maximus, self-proclaimed Emperor in Britain, withdrew his legions from the island
and crossed into Gaul, driven by an ambition to seize the Western Empire.

Next Charlemagne would lend well to kap except for most were considered a paladin class not in kap, would probably use the new pathfinder game for this one with the d and source book i Have on Charlemagne's paladin's produced for d and d advanced 2nd edition.

Next using the current rules to play out a robin hood using the lands of Huntington Hertford, Nottingham, and the Angles might lend it self well to the genera, perhaps even adapting to the crusades.

I also adapted Stephen Lawhead's book's of Arthur legends in his pen dragon cycle and also adapted his In the hall of the dragon king trilogy seris with the warlords of nin and the sword of Flame

How,ever using it for any other campaign then an Arthurian one I feel would just be wrong .

For Lord of the Rings, Star Trek, SG1, and even Babylon 5, I have used Deciphers game books and would not use kap for trier settings, at all.

But as usual that's my take on themed KAP genera's.

ok separate note on coda system and For Lord of the Rings, Star Trek, SG 1, and even Babylon 5, I have used Deciphers game books while SG1 and bablyon 5, and even battle-star galactica and Conan the barbarian did not appear with in the coda system settings I used and adapted them to the coda system.

I found the coda system lent it self well to the genera of what George Lucas calls space opera and use these settings as such, using the tv shows and books as inspiration. I even used the Technology of Star Trek and the Lord of the rings magic and Magician, and wizard order's to create the Bablyon 5 techno Magician/Wizard order, even had a sorcerer version too.

While on the combat side of things yes characters can become way to powerful way to quick on the other note their are powerful characters in lotr when running my last campaign which ended this last December the Eleven mage was powerful but not as powerfull as Gandolph or even master Elorond but in his own way still a very powerful spell casting character and his companions were all elvis who banded together with the dwarfs and hobbits and men to make one final stand at far nor st against the witch king of Angmar this was the first invasion in which the king of the north was able to repel with the help but still cost him and I had no problem with them being high up hero's I still manged to take the down a few pegs with various monsters and nazghoul. While yes it can default to d and d I I feel the coda system works well high epic fantasy. Star Trek was the setting imposing rules of behavior which kept things sane and the thing is you needed to put this element into the coda rules in order to off set the high impact of stats i also had in my games a good storyline and objectives if objectives were met they got their xp if not they did not get story line xp till they completed a quest.

Really? Decipher's CODA system, used in the LotR and Star Trek RPGs, always seemed to me to be quite broken from a mechanics perspective. I only ever ran CODA Star Trek, and found that it was trivial for characters to turn themselves into combat gods far too easily. The only thing that kept the system working in Star Trek was the setting imposing rules of behaviour which kept things sane. The experience was enough to deter me from playing CODA LotR.

Well I wont run any other game system except Kap, Coda System, and Pathfinder though If I had the money would try the new War Hammer fantasy setting i hear it's an awesome setting..
Sounds like me on KAP 5 magic, and why i no longer play d and d now!


On the other hand, the Pendragon system for LotR I can imagine working quite well.

Really ? I cant imagine even trying to adapt lotr to kap to me it does not fit at all.

On the other hand, the Pendragon system for LotR I can imagine working quite well.

Really ? I cant imagine even trying to adapt lotr to kap to me it does not fit at all.


Well, I have GM convention one-shots where the players are Gondorian/Numenorean Knights during the War of the Last Alliance of Men and Elves. It worked reasonably well, well enough that some of the players have been asking if I am planning on GMing a campaign in Middle-Earth. :)

What KAP (straight out of the box) can have problems with is the long-lived races, especially Elves, and in lesser extent, with Numenorean men, due to the winter training mechanic allowing them to pile on attributes and skill points, so some houseruling would be needed there. However, I have no doubt that it would work very nicely with a setting in late Third Age playing men. I have been itching to GM either a rohirrim extended kin group (see Saxons! but with horses!) from Eorl the Young to the War of the Ring, or the antics of the Northern Kingdoms, especially towards their sunset years in mid-Third Age. Now if I'd just win a lottery and be able to commit myself to GMing full time... :)

As a more general comment, KAP lends itself to a relatively realistic setting, where hitting an unarmored man with a sword can take him down with one blow, and even an armored man would rather not be hit. Granted, I would agree with an argument that 1d20 is a bit too random to allow lightly armored, skilled heroes (for example Aragorn) carve their way through hordes of enemies without extreme skill levels. But by the same token, anyone foolish enough to try to take on a giant one-on-one in KAP is pretty suicidal without skill levels well in excess of 20, too. Yet that happens in the literature all the time, as does a single knight defeating several enemies.

Well morian all I got to say is cool if you can pull it off well enough that the players liked it to want an entire Campagin then you struck gold lol!

So to help you out let me say this i suggest you down load and read the Hall of Fire it is a fan created webzine. They feature everything that one needs to expanded upon the Coda rule system form Decipher Inc. and create wonderful, Tolkien inspired adventures in Middle-earth. they have full settings and history's of all the lands of middle earth

found here http://halloffire.org/2004/page/2/


I have down loaded quite a few of these magaizine Issues

Issue 3 has ADVENTURING IN
The History of the Rohirrim and it's the complete history too!

I like these becuse it expands the game and has a lot of valuable info for both GM and player! alike.

One friend did run a game set in the universe of Dune using Pendragon, which was interesting.


What an interesting idea.

Dune was a great saga and even the movie was excellent ;D. I'm trying to introduce what Valor really is and what it's affects are, but the majority of players have never undergone real Gom Jabbars and have no concept of just how powerful having no fear makers one of how much of an edge being immune to reacting to ones own pain, mutilation or death is and the equal importance of having ones attacks just be techniques when one tries to hurt, mutilate or kill others are. fear really is "the mind killer" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIDtN8CDQmk. When the Gom Jabbars are real either oneself or those one is protecting really die. One has only one chance.

I hope this isn't too much of a necro.

I've been adapting Pendragon to play mecha piloting knights in a post-apocalyptic land, but with all the things that make Pendragon great, quests in the name of glory and chivalry.

Prince Valiant: The Storytelling Game is a great, entry-level, game but besides a couple of example stats for Saxons and Huns, there is no campaign information nor sourcebook available: it relies on the GM to make up EVERYTHING! While PV states that Arthur's realm includes England, Cornwall, and Wales, it doesn't have a detailed map of any counties or any info on its' lords, nor any detailed info on other nations. All this, I suppose, is because the comic is not as detailed? I LOVE the system, because it makes gameplay a breeze, but it makes up for it by leaving you with all the work of building up the campaign from scratch; not for the lazy GM, lol.

Pendragon is the closest thing to it, but: 1) Arthur is king of just Logres and, 2) takes place 100 years later than PV. While the Pendragon book doesn't include a political map, the Pendragon site has a link that (when up again) should provide detailed information on counties and their rulers: http://www.gspendragon.com/leaders.html. Even so, I'm not sure how I could use that info considering the timeline change; though, as an alternative, I suppose I could just disregard PV's timeline and use Pendragon's. Also helpful, the Pendragon book lists more common creatures and villains with stats for them, but they somehow need to be converted for use with PV.

Anyone still play Prince Valiant? Any suggestions on available game aids?

Thanks.

I figured that people would use the comic strap for their PV campaign and ideas
It's one of the longest-running comics extant today and cpies of back issues are pretty commmon

As for other support material, I for one, know of none

....actually, I've been purchasing volumes that contain the yearly back-issues from its' very first strip. I'm just starting volume 3, and, still, there isn't enough background information. Below are adventures Prince Valiant has in Volume 1:

1) Baron Baldon of Eeriwold, somewhere "several days northward of Camelot" (who with one of his knights, Sir Osmond) conspire to hold Sir Gawain for ransom.
2) Rescued the Thane (and his wife) of Branwyn castle (wherever that is) from an ogre.
3) Morgan Le Fey abducts Sir Gawain to Dolorous Garde to "convince" him to marry her.
4) Prince Arn of Ord (wherever that is), where he plants to fight him over Ilene (and eventually gets the Singing Sword).
5) Val and Arn chase Thagnar the Sea Rover, who has captured Ilene, to Thule; where he has a narrow escape from King Sligon, who deposed his father.

These are great adventure ideas but, while with Volume 1 we do get the name of one Baron and a Thane, it seems that reading the comics will not give the GM/Storyteller enough of a framework to start with. I suppose I'm used to campaigns from other game systems that actually give you details about a kingdom, if not the entire continent or world; wherever the player goes (whether planned or by surprising the GM) you can always look up who they can meet. In PV, you DON'T have that and will need to make up everything as you go along; and while some GM's have a gift to actually pull that kind of play-style off which makes the players oblivious to the fact that he's creating on-the-fly; I would imagine that most of us will need some kind of material to start with!

I don't mean to put you on the spot, of course, but I thought that you had already ready through the comics; I was wondering why you didn't compile a campaign book? Instead of GMs just reading the comics for more adventure ideas, they will now need to start collecting the entire series in an attempt to get a few names/locations here and there; which would work if you plan to follow the adventures in the strip exactly with your players, but if you want to start elsewhere or if you need to go somewhere new, you will be stuck.

When do you think that Leaders link I meantioned before might be ready? I'd be willing to just use that as a starting point.

Thanks.

....actually, I've been purchasing volumes that contain the yearly back-issues from its' very first strip.

While preparing for this I was fortunate enough to be given access to the complete series, in their original newspaper form, each one carefully preserved in a plastic folder. They were kept in a piece of furniture with sliding flats instead of drawers. It was a pretty tall piece of funiture!
At one point I read a page and remember reading it when I was about 10 and thinking, "I like this. I'll keep reading it. And still do today!
It had quite an impact on my KAP game


I was wondering why you didn't compile a campaign book?

Because I already had it in KAP
I used PV to introduce new players
I wanted to make a rpg with one page of rules, so newbies are now scared off


When do you think that Leaders link I mentioned before might be ready? I'd be willing to just use that as a starting point.

It won't ever
It was based on false understanding of the system where I thought that an earl ruled a county, and all the landholders in that county
However
Book of the Warlord is done and will be the next KAP release
It lists the 65 barons of Logres, and shows their holdings
also, the bishops, abbeys, and so on
The Book of Uther, after BoW, continues this with minor abbeys, market towns, and so on
These are only for Logres
I will need to do new books for Cambria, Cumbria and the North
BoW is 101 pages of text, which means it will be quite a bit larger in final form
BoU a mere 79 pages of text

I wonder if it would be fun to adapt Jack Vance's Lyonesse trilogy with the KAP system. After all, his Lyonesse is an attempt at a shared universe with a (more fantastic and magical) "dark ages" Europe.

Vance's work has already been adapted into two very language centered games (Dying Earth RPG and the space opera Gaean Reach, inspired by his demon prince revenge series) and there was a French language Lyonesse game I've never been able to find. In those games you gain experience by using well time Baroque catch phrases and clever turns of phrase in game, quite a different system from KAP. Though enjoyable for a short game, I find it lacking otherwise.

Lyonesse though iis a very different series by Vance, I think perhaps very influential on A Song of Ice and Fire in terms of its balance of power politics and point-of-view chapters weaving together a wide range of characters, it makes plenty of references to Arthurian legend, though this is stuff quite a field of Malory and the like.

Still, i'm intrigued by the idea. Also by the Robin Hood idea further up thread.

I know I am WAAAAAAYYYYYY late to this thread; but I've had a lot of thoughts similar to some of these posts....

Namely that one day I'd like to play a Crusades era game, Pendragon style in a 'legendary' version of the world where King Arthur and his knights lived....and where the Charlemagne 'and his Paladins' stories happened.....and where Godfrey of Bouilon really WAS the descendant of the 'Swan Knight'; etc.

I imagine I'd start such a game somewhere around 1096 or so.....and play it out until maybe 1200-ish.....(I have no interest in playing out the latter Crusades, after the sack of Constantinople, etc.) with the PCs starting off as 'second sons (or daughters)'; and embarking on the Crusade for adventure and encountering a mostly realistic and true to history timeline (i.e. siege of Antioch, capture of Jerusalem, Battles of Ramla, Battle of the Field of Blood, etc.)....though with the occasional 'miracle' here and there (a TRUE holy man/woman and/or relic, etc.) and monster here and there (Dragon, jinn, Ghul, etc.) thrown in as well.

I'd only want to play the game with people who could walk that tightrope of paying enough attention to the religious aspect of the times to not make a mockery of them and at the same time be able to realize (and Role-play) that being able to co-exist with those different than you was ESSENTIAL to the survival of the Crusader states (and therefore the 'manors/fiefs' the players would gain)...so that just like in real life; you'd have future visitors from 'back home in Europe' come to the Holy Lands and almost see these "easterner Franks" as an alien people. LOTS of fun role-playing potential here and numerous Battles and Political leaders of admirable and not-so-admirable character to weave in (Kings of Jerusalem like Baldwin the second, devoted to his Armenian wife and the Leper King, Baldwin IV; pugnacious and ambitious Reynald of Chatillion who started as an obscure Knight and became Prince of Antioch and Lord of Transjordan before eventually meeting his demise at Saladin's own hand; Saladin and his brother Saphadin, noble and wise yet determined to united the Turk/Arab/Kurd/Egyptian peoples of the region to be able to defeat the Europeans; Zengi, the Muslim leader who was a powerful and feared war-lord, yet one who was haughty and treated his servants so bad that eventually one of his own slaves killed him; etc., etc.)

I don't know, it just seems like a great system that would be able to handle this chock full of adventure/political intrigue/mysterious in a religious and/or magical context time period QUITE WELL! Assuming of course, you have the right players!

Man....now I REALLY want to try this out!

Man....now I REALLY want to try this out!

You are not the only one. :)

Please let us know if you manage to do a campaign on this and how it goes! I think you have picked an exceptionally interesting time period and setting, which should keep the players hopping.

I am obviously late to the thread too but just in case someone reads it again...

In my mind, the system should adapt to serve the setting and not the other way around. For instance, passions and personality traits are in Pendragon because the behaviour of playing knights is important. In fact, although combat is important, I think there is more about passions and traits than about fighting. This suggests to me that Pendragon is, mostly, about how the knights behave rather than how the fight. Aging is in the game to remind you that your character will eventually die so it is up to you to steer that death towards a glorious one questing, or death in bed having created a dynasty.

With that in mind, I would not consider aging for a Middle Earth setting but I would most definitely keep passions and traits. A commitment (loyalty passion if you wish) to the Fellowship would explain heroic deeds by unlikely characters. The one ring would be a machine of forcing rolls against bad traits, etc. In a similar way, wondering how Aragorn can defeat all those orcs without bothering with armour is like wondering how Lancelot kills giants so easily. You are looking a heroes of legend rather than common people and their stats are out of our league. That is how I would put it but if you want to run a campaign of epic proportions where the characters deliver the one ring or defeat the Witch King, I would suggest to focus more on enabling your characters' inspiration by adequate passions rather than tweaking the rules.

Regarding a setting in the Crusades, I considered one myself but I abandoned the idea to focus on another one. As someone mentioned in a previous post, I thought it would be best to focus only on a portion of the Crusades rather than the entire period. A fitting end must be chosen, something that provides an adequate ending. You have it in KAP with Arthur's death but there is a steady decline after an initial period of increasing splendor.

You could have the First Crusade as the first half of your campaign, where hard times eventually give way to unlikely success. The second part of the campaign could show a decline until most of the Crusading states are reconquered by local Muslim powers or some tragic battle such as Hattin. This would be similar to the Saxon campaign in Pendragon's supplement "Saxons!", which ends with an epic battle of Badon where all the characters die gloriously. You may just compress the time it took to reach the fall of Constantinople!

You may also run the first half of the campaign by seasons rather than years. Or some other unit of time. It did not take that long and much happened in short spaces of time. If you do not think you can stretch it for long enough, you may consider adding the events leading the the calling of the Crusade, the travelling to the Holy Land, etc and give some emphasis to the logistic and diplomatic challenges so that not everything is about fighting.

I eventually dropped my work on the Crusades to focus on a Spanish Reconquista campaign. Progress is slow as I lost my group of players after moving to another country but I have recently started with another group so there is incentive to work on it again. I have produced a KAP style timeline that starts in the 12th century and ends with Columbus' arrival to America in 1492. I have also started a draft timeline for the American Conquest. So far, the Reconquista campaign has 6 phases of approximately 10 years each with detailed events. These phases are:

Phase 1, "The Amoravid Decline", where Christian kingdoms stop the Almoravid conquest and start fighting back. The main focus for the players is to build a dynasty and experience (relative) religious tolerance.

Phase 2, "The Almohad Onslaught", depicting the Almohad invasion and leading to the disaster of (the battle of) Alarcos. This provides a game-changer where some dynasties will fall into oblivion as all their male members die in battle while others rise to prominence following survival.

Phase 3, "Turning the Tide". This features the epic battle of "Las Navas de Tolosa", where the Almohads are decisively stopped in a Hollywood-style simultaneous charge by three Christian kings. It is a period where characters gain importance in the Iberian world so that family members can play important roles in the future.

Phase 4, "Muslim Counterattack and the Catalan Company". The Catalan Company is too exciting to ignore so the campaign takes the players away from Iberia for a while, going through the war of the Sicilian Vespers and the Catalan Company at the service of Byzantium.

Phase 5, "The Exploits of the Navarrese Company and Civil War in Castile". Too much happens in this period and I had to drop Castilian involvement in the Hundred Years War in favour of the Navarrese Company. I thought it would be interesting to show a Spanish company of mercenaries fighting another Spanish mercenary group abroad. The Castilian Civil War features characters such as the Black Prince and Bertrand du Guesclin and feels more like Game of Thrones. Christians turn on each other as the Muslim kingdoms focus on survival. Around this stage honour slowly moves from a virtue admired by all to a national obsession that provokes deadly duels.

Phase 6, "The War of Granada". This starts with the ascension of Queen Isabella to the Castilian throne (following another Game of Thrones styled civil war), bringing a radical shift in the coexistence of different religions in Iberia. Queen Isabella promotes Christian fanaticism that becomes a Spanish trademark of the time. Dynasties with Muslim heritage may have to prove their worth again or falsify a history as "cristiano viejos" (old Christians) to avoid the backlash against Muslim lords recently converted to Christianity. An excuse for players to attempt daring exploits during the war or to overcome suspicion by zealous persecution of non-Christians (as Torquemada did)

It is an ambitious plan but if I focus on making short scenarios (Pendragon style) that focus on key events and decisions, it is doable. The one thing I need to tweak is combat. Pendragon's focus is (understandably) on armoured horsemen. War in Iberia favoured light cavalry instead. Heavy cavalry was decisive only in limited situations and light infantry was paramount. I must find a way to enable this easily. I am thinking of terrain modifiers but it might feel arbitrary.

The timeline for the Conquest of America is still in a very early draft and likely to remain so for a while but I already have some strong ideas, including a fitting end and what change the player characters will experience through the campaign. Greed, religious fanaticism and extreme patriotism will play an important role alongside an obsession with honour. Legends such as the Fountain of Youth, Eldorado, Cibola and the Seven Cities of Gold should appear too.

Any thoughts or suggestions?