Hi all. This is yet another of those appropriate passion use threads. I do have a specific scenario to ask advice on, though.

The Background: The Evil Dude has kidnapped the PC Lady with nefarious intent twice in the past, but has been foiled both times. In revenge, he has been raiding the estate and the neighboring PK estates. Now he has been caught and brought before Arthur. However, since he has some information of interest to the Crown, he manages to talk his otherwise hanging offenses into an exile-for-life sentence, IF he wins in a duel against one of the PKs.

Now, to the question... One of the potential volunteer PKs has an extremely strong Loyalty(Group) which covers the PC Lady in question. The Evil Dude has transgressed against her in the past, as seen in the background paragraph, and there is every reason to suspect that the exile sentence will not keep him away from trying to get back up to his old tricks again. So can the PK use Loyalty(Group) to get inspired in the duel to put the Evil Dude away for good?

Some arguments for and against:
A) No. The Lady is not in danger/involved at the moment, and you can't get inspired for what someone might potentially do in the future, unless it is in the immediate future like getting inspired to help a fallen comrade, before he is finished off or championing the PC Lady in a judicial duel against her accusers (not the case here).
B) Yes, if he makes a Vengeful roll to feel strongly enough about the raids done against her and the kidnapping attempts (in which she was unharmed, mind you). (Some other Trait?)
C) Sure he can. The Evil Dude has done more than enough harm to allow the PK get Inspired in order to finish this threat off once and for all.

I would have less problems with Amor(PC Lady) or Love(PC Lady) passions, as they would clearly feel more strongly about taking this proven threat to her safety out, even if the threat is not imminent. Hate(Evil Dude) would be an obvious choice as well. I could also see Love(Family), but alas, the PC Lady is not part of this PK's family, nor have his Family members been killed by the Evil Dude.

So, how would other GMs rule here?

Yes
the key:


One of the potential volunteer PKs has an extremely strong Loyalty(Group) which covers the PC Lady in question.

If she's present, I'd allow the inspiration. She is in need of evildude going away, and part of the group.

Thanks. I was veering towards that answer myself, too.

I would say it depends.
I always like to hear the reasoning of the player. With what intention does he go into this fight. Is it revenge against past transgressions? Is to protect the lady against possible future transgression? Is it because he hates the evil dude?
With that in mind I would start the combat both not inspired. If it seems PK will loose the fight he may get inspired. the bonus of inspiration is very high and I always feel that it should be used sparingly.

Of course it would also be interesting to see what happens when the enemy is critically wounded and asks for merci.

Now, to the question... One of the potential volunteer PKs has an extremely strong Loyalty(Group) which covers the PC Lady in question. The Evil Dude has transgressed against her in the past, as seen in the background paragraph, and there is every reason to suspect that the exile sentence will not keep him away from trying to get back up to his old tricks again. So can the PK use Loyalty(Group) to get inspired in the duel to put the Evil Dude away for good?

I agree with Greg on this one use One of the potential volunteer PKs that has an extremely strong Loyalty (Group) which covers the PC Lady in question.

Or you could be some what mean and devious and use one of her knights like her NPC Husband I think you talked about and let the dice decide their fate's in a game session by running a trial by combat to the death in front of the whole group as a climactic end to this story, which means if the evil dude wins he gets the girl? and more room for what happens and how do the pk's react to this? if not he's dead end of story unless he has someone who might avenge him later. You can decide their fates or let the group vote on which out come they would like to see, and let the dice decide their fates. That's what I would do let the players decide which story line they would like and let the dice decide.

if the evil dude wins he gets the girl?


No chance of that whatsoever. No way Arthur would countenance that. It was actually the NPC husband who brought the Evil Dude down in combat earlier, capturing him for this 'trial'. But the Evil Dude has way too many black marks on his record to be walking away from this with anything other than his life (and equipment), at the best case scenario for him. He is a murderer and a knave, and the only reason Arthur didn't string him up like a common bandit was that he had information that Arthur wanted. And our Arthur doesn't torture people. :)

No chance of that whatsoever. No way Arthur would countenance that. It was actually the NPC husband who brought the Evil Dude down in combat earlier, capturing him for this 'trial'. But the Evil Dude has way too many black marks on his record to be walking away from this with anything other than his life (and equipment), at the best case scenario for him. He is a murderer and a knave, and the only reason Arthur didn't string him up like a common bandit was that he had information that Arthur wanted.

sounds like he is my version of bruises sans pitte the infamous black knight


And our Arthur doesn't torture people

True he usually leaves this to the Bishop (who will sanctify him for his crimes) or Merlin (for his Vile Desecration of the Pagan religion). Either way he will get the info, and the Black Knight gets the boot some how, in my campaign the black knight looses only after a murderous killing spree occurs against round table knights and ladies and Arthur has put a blood price on his head which means if ever caught he will pay for his crimes usually with his life by a Round Table Knight, and if he has info such as you say yes Arthur lets him go but puts a blood price on his head and tells his knight form this day fourth if they have see this knight their duty is to challenge and kill him in a trial by combat. That's how I do it, and it shows a darker side of Arthur but I only do this after the climax of a 7 to 10 year killing spree and dastardly deeds he has done.

True he usually leaves this to the Bishop (who will sanctify him for his crimes) or Merlin (for his Vile Desecration of the Pagan religion). Either way he will get the info, and the Black Knight gets the boot some how, in my campaign the black knight looses only after a murderous killing spree occurs against round table knights and ladies and Arthur has put a blood price on his head which means if ever caught he will pay for his crimes usually with his life by a Round Table Knight, and if he has info such as you say yes Arthur lets him go but puts a blood price on his head and tells his knight form this day fourth if they have see this knight their duty is to challenge and kill him in a trial by combat. That's how I do it, and it shows a darker side of Arthur but I only do this after the climax of a 7 to 10 year killing spree and dastardly deeds he has done.


i can't envision Arthur sanction any one to torture ANYBODY. execute in a gruesome medieval yes but torture for a confession or info no. all legal claims aganst the accused are acquitted if a Trial by Combat is won so i don't know about blood price either. IMPD the King would NEVER allow a Sir Jack of Bauer style end justify means knight. if an evil knight was acquitted after Trial, My King might allow the kin/group to quietly take up a feud especially as the evil so and so is no longer a noble. Arthur may allow trial by combat to prove guilt/innocence, not so much type of punishment

Just to clarify, the Evil Dude is oh so guilty. There are only two reasons our Arthur is letting this happen:
1) The information is important to the safety of the Realm.
2) He has no doubt that the right cause will be victorious, as the champion meeting the Evil Dude is a RTK.

In other words, he gets the information AND sees justice served. Win-win. :)

Their you go!

i can't envision Arthur sanction any one to torture ANYBODY. execute in a gruesome medieval yes but torture for a confession or info no. all legal claims aganst the accused are acquitted if a Trial by Combat is won so i don't know about blood price either. IMPD the King would NEVER allow a Sir Jack of Bauer style end justify means knight. if an evil knight was acquitted after Trial, My King might allow the kin/group to quietly take up a feud especially as the evil so and so is no longer a noble. Arthur may allow trial by combat to prove guilt/innocence, not so much type of punishment

Actually Arthur in literature does allow feuds. He tries to stop them but often is unable. Gawain vs Lancelot in the end, or the Ganis vs Orkneys.
And these guys were not even accused of crime, just some slight against the family (there was also this feud against the guy chasing the questing beast, forget his name). Arthur has noble intentions but is limited by his own law and medieval traditions.

fg,
Thijs

there was also this feud against the guy chasing the questing beast, forget his name

King Pellinore of the Isles - senior member of the Gales faction, who are the *other* group that the Orkney guys feud against.

Regards
Luke

there was also this feud against the guy chasing the questing beast, forget his name

King Pellinore of the Isles - senior member of the Gales faction, who are the *other* group that the Orkney guys feud against.

Regards
Luke


Although, to my understanding, the Gales vs. Orkney feud is more behind the scenes. Orkneys don't brag about who they murdered Pellinore, but are content to leave that king's death a mystery, and so forth. I am more surprised that a whole world of hurt didn't descend on Gaheris for killing his mother. Did they hush that up, too? Because we get to see Gaheris and Gareth in Arthur's court and apparently quite highly placed even at Guinevere's execution.

there was also this feud against the guy chasing the questing beast, forget his name

King Pellinore of the Isles - senior member of the Gales faction, who are the *other* group that the Orkney guys feud against.

Regards
Luke


Although, to my understanding, the Gales vs. Orkney feud is more behind the scenes. Orkneys don't brag about who they murdered Pellinore, but are content to leave that king's death a mystery, and so forth. I am more surprised that a whole world of hurt didn't descend on Gaheris for killing his mother. Did they hush that up, too? Because we get to see Gaheris and Gareth in Arthur's court and apparently quite highly placed even at Guinevere's execution.


Gaheris is banished from court for the murder of his mother but turns up later to be slain by Lancelot. This type of continuity error is fairly common in Malory.

Gaheris is banished from court for the murder of his mother but turns up later to be slain by Lancelot. This type of continuity error is fairly common in Malory.


Thanks, I must have forgotten about that. Banished from Court is still small potatoes considering that he killed his mother. On the defense side, she was sleeping around with the son of her husband's killer, so family honor and all that...

Gaheris is banished from court for the murder of his mother but turns up later to be slain by Lancelot. This type of continuity error is fairly common in Malory.


Thanks, I must have forgotten about that. Banished from Court is still small potatoes considering that he killed his mother. On the defense side, she was sleeping around with the son of her husband's killer, so family honor and all that...


'Passion made me do it' is often a valid excuse in Malory ;D

'Passion made me do it' is often a valid excuse in Malory ;D


You mean:
Sorry, I criticalled my Passion roll and the GM made me do it, King Arthur...

fg,
Thijs

Thus far some cool (unwanted) passion roles have resulted in a PC gaining a vindictive and manipulative wife with a famous hatred of another member of the party.
Wasn't planned, just how a few dice rolls came down, but it's that kind of stuff that adds the zest that makes each Pendragon campaign unique.