Since ESTATE is now out, I'd like to address this
I am well aware of the impact that this might have on people
I feel that any gamemaster who can ad lib a campaign can ad lib through this transition
If you can't, then go to the back of the book where the new and modern versions of the names are
But I don't see any problem with using a mixed bag, some names being the new and understandable versions, others being the modern names that mean nothing to us

In truth, I work for the future, not the past
In the future of KAP, these names will prevail and the old ones will be "the old game"
There will be a new GPC some day with only the new names
Some day

We are putting together an Atlas of KAP, and I'll try to put the on-going updates of names and place online
The site could use some new material anyway
Preparing the maps, however, is much more difficult
I beg patience

I would have liked to have done this 25 years ago, when the game began
but I didn't have the resources for it
But when you read the traditional literature, it is clear that the authors didn't have a map of Britain before them
They didn't seem to know anything about Britain, in most cases
Thus you will find the Castle of the Dragon, Castle of the Lost Valley, Castle of the Bronze Men and so on
I like that better than the modern names
Also, I like the idea that the people in the game world do know the meaning of the places around them
They are not foreigners to the land, but people whose ancestors named the places when they were just beginning
Thus we have a large number of nature-names, named for trees, animals and physical appearance of the land

I applaud the historical accuracy, changing the place names is a good move. Regardless if a GM has to do some legwork now, its better for the future.

This is definitely one of those YMMV issues. While I know that the 'old names' are anachronistic, It is so much easier to say 'King Mark of Cornwall'. We do use Eburacum instead of York (whenever I remember it), but that is about it. London is London instead of Londinium (or whatever it is in ESTATES).

While I speak mainly from my own perspective, the modern names are much easier for me to place on the map when I am looking to see how long it takes the PKs to get there. Will they be able to come back in time for the harvest and so forth. In addition, it has the added side benefit of actually teaching some modern geography.

Just my opinion on this topic.

An atlas would greatly ease my trouble with this change. Where each place is listed with its variant names it would be very helpful in navigation. Flipping back and forth to a list in the back of a pdf is a pain and not really in the cards when all of my maps identify things otherwise. I also agree that certain place-names are far more evocative than others. Cornwall is a name that everyone recognizes. YMMV.

Where each place is listed with its variant names it would be very helpful in navigation.

In the interest of managing expectations, I can't imagine that will be the outcome of the Atlas. It's challenging enough to fit labels on maps, working around various cartographic features, without doubling the number of names for every feature. But we'll have a robust, two-way "translation" appendix, in case you need to reference it, but the short answer is just use the names on the maps, and cross reference only when it's important too — Who is the Earl of Marlborough again? Look in the back — oh yeah, the Lord of Gentian Hill. You only have to juggle so many place names in your campaign at one time, and usually then just in prep work.

Is it less than optimal? Definitely. Is it more evocative of the milieu? For sure. Is it worth it? YMMV. Depends on how much you value the "tone" of the setting.


Best,


T.

Okay, I assumed the atlas would have descriptive entries for each land. I was suggesting that the different names be listed in those entries and not on the maps themselves. But I was thinking more of a gazetteer than just a collection of maps.

Ah, I'm with ya, then. Yes, I'm not sure if Greg's planning more of a gazeteer or not, but I secretly hope so. It would totally make sense to list the alternate names with each entry, you bet.


T.

You could just make two maps....one with the old names, one with the new.

NT

You could just make two maps....one with the old names, one with the new.

NT


+1

While that would be cool, it sounds unnecessary. We have all the maps with the old names already. I would be cool with just a gazetteer listing alternate names.

Greg has addressed the issue of the Pendragon Naming System in another thread. His game, his concept. I actually encouraged him to go one step further and give everything Welsh names, but he thought that might introduce too many other issues, like difficult pronunciation, etc. Plus, he wanted to evoke those traditional Arthurian place names, and in retrospect I think he made the right call.


I've been wondering about something Taliesin touched upon in the Book of Estates-thread, namely the Welsh names.
I realize that to a modern (non-Welsh) reader names like Kynke Kynedonne are far more evocative than, say, Lincoln, but seeing as how every one in Pendragon is a Welsh native did you or Greg ever consider going the other way, i.e. translating the Welsh names into English?

[quote author=Taliesin link=topic=1994.msg16029#msg16029 date=1371043067]
I've been wondering about something Taliesin touched upon in the Book of Estates-thread, namely the Welsh names.
I realize that to a modern (non-Welsh) reader names like Kynke Kynedonne are far more evocative than, say, Lincoln, but seeing as how every one in Pendragon is a Welsh native did you or Greg ever consider going the other way, i.e. translating the Welsh names into English?

If I understand your question properly
Yes
The places in Cambria will be translated to English