All,

We've set up this forum to talk about your experience of the game itself. We'd like to know why King Arthur Pendragon is your current game of choice, solicit your feedback on our latest offerings, and get your ideas on what you'd like to see in the future. We hope you'll join in these discussions because we want to hear (and share) your opinions and stories. The goal is to learn more about you and use the knowledge to inform the decisions we make regarding the line. So we'll be asking questions, launching polls and capturing your ideas and suggestions all with the hope of delivering an even better Pendragon game and experience.

Best,


T.



I hope, therefore, that my riddled-with-foolishness first post is appropriately placed in this forum. Please feel free to move or delete my thread if I'm in the wrong place. There is a wealth of information here, but honestly it kind of assumes that one already is up to date about KAP, and I'm finding it rather hard to figure out where to go next. I'll spare everyone endless questions and simply ask, is there a central FAQ or "State of KAP" somewhere that I can find? Speaking from my own pokings around here thus far, it's rather hard to tell what is current and what is obsolete (I followed a link to the Book of Battle only to find it out of print. Now I see there's a 2nd edition, etc etc). Please don't take that as criticism (other than simply mildly complaining that there's no central FAQ that I can see). I'm absolutely overjoyed to find that KAP is still around!

I'm maybe an unusual case in that I was a huge fan of the game until about 2000. Then life and grad school took me away, and at the time, the state of the game was increasingly dire (Green Knight did their best, I believe, but I just didn't care for their supplements and their focus on non-Arthurian elements). I simply assumed for years that the game was gone, and I wasn't really playing RPGs anymore, so I had no news source to the contrary. Now I see it's back and strong, but as a professional artist, I'm not exactly swimming in enough cash to just buy everything sight unseen.

I guess my big question is how different is the system now? If I buy KAP 5.1 will that render Blood and Lust obsolete? Does the Book of Battle finally smooth out the wrinkles with the 3rd ed Battle system, and would that book alone be compatible with my 3rd ed books? If you were like me once but bought every single Nocturnal book, are there earlier books you still use?


I'm possibly not making a ton of sense with my questions, but I really don't want to just ramble on and on and on. If anyone wants, I can expand more on my background and what I'm asking here, but I'll go ahead now and see if there's any immediate reaction or invective...

The system is basically still the same as it was in earlier editions. No big shifts (like happened with D&D), so all your old material is compatible. I am happily using the old adventure modules in our campaign, and it is not a problem at all.

I am running a 3rd edition campaign with Book of Battle (as 3e battle system leaves a lot to be desired), and it is seamless. My players like Book of Battle better than any other Pendragon supplement. I use 5th edition GPC as inspiration, and even run some 1e adventures.

So, 5th edition: all previous version adventures and source books can be used. Some source book material gets superseded by the Great Pendragon Campaign, which basically takes what the 3rd edition supplement The Boy King did and takes it to 11 - 80 years of adventure ideas and plots. 5e of course has numerous rule tweaks, which you may or may not like, and its default start date is 485, in the Uther period. Then Greg has a plethora of books that take one aspect of Pendragon and blow it up: Book of the Estate is basically The Nobles Book updated to 5e

In my opinion, Book of Battle and the Great Pendragon Campaign are a 10 out of 10 in terms of usefulness, bang for the buck, and being up to date. The others are useful and/or interesting, but have a more limited application, and create a lot of extra detail - fun to read, not always fun to GM.

Well, I'm feeling the old ultra-enthusiasm start to ramp up pretty strongly the more I read about what's happening with the game now. So, artist salary or no, if I'm honest, we're probably really just prioritizing the order in which I buy the books at this point...


Thank you, Morien. I remember that there were some mild clunks in using 1st/2nd edition materials with 3rd edition rules. Tournament of Dreams springs to mind as an excellent adventure that needed several tweaks to shoehorn into the newer model, but that once accomplished, it worked very nicely. If none of the new rules are any more disruptive than that experience, then consider me sold.

Makofan, your words about using the Book of Battle are very encouraging, since that would be the number one element of 3rd ed that needed a retooling. Do you recommend the Book of Armies as well?

As for the Great Pendragon Campaign, it sounds fantastic, but I wonder how much of it is already covered in Boy King (not to mention all the other books). Don't get me wrong: it sounds fantastic, and I'll almost certainly get it...at some point. The question is how crucial it is for an old player. When you say the info in Boy King is "superseded" by the GPC, do you mean that it is redundant or that it is better presented and more thorough? The larger timeline certainly sounds appealing. I'm asking partly because you call it a 10 out of 10 for usefulness when it sounds to me like potentially the most redundant item for me. I'm intrigued...

One other question: how does the Book of Estate compare to the Book of Manor? They are two separate products, right? Not two editions of the same material. It looks like Book of Estate is the new Lordly Domains, as you say; is the Book of Manor a brand-new "life in a single manor" sourcebook? That sounds potentially pretty useful, though there's also a Book of the Entourage that looks like it might cover some pretty similar "life as a vassal knight" territory.

The basic system is pretty much unchanged from 3rd edition to 5th edition, even less than from 1st to 3rd. The skill levels are pretty much the same and all the other stats, too. I don't really need to do any converting to use a 3rd edition adventures with 5th edition characters.

As for the books, I suggest you look at the threads in this section of the forum to see what people say about them. Below are some of my thoughts on them.

The Great Pendragon Campaign covers the period from 485 (Uther) to 566 post-Camlann, year-by-year. The Boy King covers only 510 - 530 at the same level of detail. So plenty of new material there... if you want/need it. If you are already familiar with Mallory or are looking to tell more your own stories than interact with the canonical characters and events, then it is not as necessary. Also, if you are really focused on the 510 - 530 period, the GPC doesn't add much to that. It does expand a lot on the Anarchy period, although if you are an experienced GM, you can probably come up with your own stories there. Alas, I was a newbie when we started playing Pendragon, and I didn't make as full a use of Anarchy as I would have now, with the GPC's example before me.

I don't own Book of Battle, so I can't say too much about it... I have heard nice things about it, though. Apparently it is a big improvement over the basic system in 4th and 5th editions, giving the PKs more influence over the battles. Again, I think it depends on your needs. If you are doing many battles (as you will if you are doing 510 - 530, and almost certainly don't if you are doing 530+) and don't want to bother coming up with your own system, then it might be worthwhile. Alas, we were already on the post-530 phase, I didn't feel the need to get it.

As for the Book of Armies, I don't own that one either, but it seems to be mainly lists of different armies that the PKs might fight against during the GPC. Not really sold that it is worth the price for me, which is why I didn't buy it. I'd probably be able to do my own or use the army lists in 5th ed and the GPC. But if you are really really into stuff like that, then maybe you might want to get it.

I do own Book of the Manor, and if you are interested in taking care of a manor or two in more detail, then I would recommend it. The harvest system works pretty well, too, and it has a list of retainers and so forth. All in all, I feel that is money well spent. Again, I don't own Book of the Estate, but what I have heard about it here... It didn't really sound like something I would -need-. Our campaign is a bit smaller scale than what BoE assumes (£50 - £100 estate income). Furthermore, BoE has less detail and is NOT compatible with BotM as far as I know (the manor produced £10 for example, although if I understood correctly, part of that gets kicked up the ladder to the liege lord). If I want less detail, I can do simple £6 / manor and forget about harvest variation.

As you can see, I am a bit miserly when it comes to supporting the new books, so I might not be the greatest source when it comes to giving you the sales pitch. :)

The things I use for the game are as follows:

I use 5.0 edition. Never bought the 5.1 as I feel the differences are too small. I think you can still use 3rd edition without problem. There have been some tweaks and clarifications, but other than that the basic system has remained the same. As most gamers I use some house rules.

The GPC. This is a rich source of information. I am currently running a game through the GPC and I like the fact that all the major events are listed and can be used. If you just want to play some nice adventures you do not need this book, but if you wish to have them interact with these events.

The Book of the Manor and the Book of the Estate. These are two systems you can use side by side. I use some elements from these books, but made my own mix of Lordly Domains and Book of the Manor. Book of the Estate is more geared towards larger holdings.

The BoK&L is an expanded character generations system. I use it for inspiration on the NPC's but this way you can play all kinds of knights.

The Book of Battle is a new system for playing battles. And to be honest I have not used it yet. Still need the time to read it through properly. I like the battles to be more cinematic and use a different way to approach the battle. the system in the main book I also do not use. Book of the Armies is more of an inspiration to field divers armies against the players.

Makofan, your words about using the Book of Battle are very encouraging, since that would be the number one element of 3rd ed that needed a retooling. Do you recommend the Book of Armies as well?

Well, I'm a big fan of Army Lists (anybody remember WRG 6th/7th editions, and DBM?) so I love the Book of Armies. But yes, you could wing it and not need BoA. BoB has six sample armies included.

If you have Boy King, you don't need GPC, as probably half the material is the same, but I guess I like to support Greg, and it is neat to see his vision, even if I ignore most of the Uther stuff

As for the books, I suggest you look at the threads in this section of the forum to see what people say about them. Below are some of my thoughts on them.



Absolutely! Don't worry, I'm definitely going through all the threads and info I can find with a fine-tooth comb which is why I hesitated to post this thread in the first place. But you never know what comments are still relevant when you search like that, and it has been truly invaluable to get your collective current thoughts. Thanks!

Thanks especially for your differing takes on the GPC, everyone. Everyone here and elsewhere seems to agree that it's at the least a great read, so I'll definitely pick it up at some point. Right now, my initial flurry of purchases is probably going to be Book of Battle, Book of Armies, maybe core 5.1 (I love the idea of different skills for different cultures, and hopefully the Passion rules have been a little fine-tuned), and maybe Knights&Ladies. Others will definitely happen at some point, but they can probably wait a little bit. Time enough to put GPC on my Christmas list!