Who is king over Gorre?
King Uriens or King Bagdemagus?

This is explained somewere , I can't rember with module.

Bottom-line: Uriens lives at Camelot, and makes his nephew (?) Bagdemagus regent. Since he never returns to Gorre, the people start to call Regent Bagdemagus for King Bagdemagus. So formally, he's the Regent, not the King. Neat, eh?

This is explained somewere , I can't rember with module.

Bottom-line: Uriens lives at Camelot, and makes his nephew (?) Bagdemagus regent. Since he never returns to Gorre, the people start to call Regent Bagdemagus for King Bagdemagus. So formally, he's the Regent, not the King. Neat, eh?


Dammit, it's times like these I miss modern bureaucracy.

Do you know when Uriens moves to Camelot?

Do you know when Uriens moves to Camelot?


I don't think it's recorded anywhere. Pretty soon after 510, I'd think.

Skarpskytten already answered the Uriens-Bagdemagus thing. I think it was detailed in Beyond the Wall.

As for Uriens' move to Camelot, I saw in GPC that in 520 Yvaine is knighted in Gorre and he travels to Camelot with his parents. Implication being that until 520 Uriens was living in Gorre. He stays in Camelot at least 521, and is not mentioned leaving after that, but also is not mentioned staying. I'd say as a GM that he stays. The last we hear from Uriens in GPC is in 529, during the war against Galehaut.

Skarpskytten already answered the Uriens-Bagdemagus thing. I think it was detailed in Beyond the Wall.

Yep, p. 11 and p. 18.

Skarpskytten already answered the Uriens-Bagdemagus thing. I think it was detailed in Beyond the Wall.

Yep, p. 11 and p. 18.


Thank you, both of you!

As for Uriens' move to Camelot, I saw in GPC that in 520 Yvaine is knighted in Gorre and he travels to Camelot with his parents. Implication being that until 520 Uriens was living in Gorre. He stays in Camelot at least 521, and is not mentioned leaving after that, but also is not mentioned staying. I'd say as a GM that he stays. The last we hear from Uriens in GPC is in 529, during the war against Galehaut.


Yeah, and Gorre is a rebell country up to 513. I guess that Uriens somehow survives Terrabil and then becomes besotted with Arthur when he is spared and given back his land (because Arthur has a soft spot for Uriens wife, Morgaine, I guess),.

Yeah, and Gorre is a rebell country up to 513. I guess that Uriens somehow survives Terrabil and then becomes besotted with Arthur when he is spared and given back his land (because Arthur has a soft spot for Uriens wife, Morgaine, I guess),.


Sorry for the late reply.

Yes, Arthur does have a soft spot for Morgan Le Fey, up until she tries to murder him in the Accalon plot. :)

What throws me is the fact that Uriens gets his lands back, while Gawaine, that loyal nephew and one of the greatest champions of Arthur ever, is not given his rightful inheritance? Especially given the hankypanky between Arthur and Margawse/Morgause (whichever spelling you wish to use for Gawaine's Mom) and that Gawaine in GPC is fighting FOR Arthur against his father. Really odd.

...and that Gawaine in GPC is fighting FOR Arthur against his father. Really odd.


The GPC is silent regarding which side Gawaine is on in 512-13. Given that taking arms against his father and liege lord would have been utterly heinous behaviour for feudal society, I think you should assume that he's (reluctantly perhaps) fighting against Arthur prior to Terrabil.

Regards
Luke

The GPC is silent regarding which side Gawaine is on in 512-13. Given that taking arms against his father and liege lord would have been utterly heinous behaviour for feudal society, I think you should assume that he's (reluctantly perhaps) fighting against Arthur prior to Terrabil.


You are right, Luke. For some reason, I keep thinking Gawaine was one of the two unrecognized knights dragging Ryons to Arthur pre-Terrabil. No idea where I got that into my head.

I do remember that we talked earlier about Gawaine being more Arthurian at heart, but follows his Father thanks to Honor and Love Family.

In any case:
1) King Uriens, fighting against Arthur by his own choice: pardoned and given his lands back.
2) Gawaine, fighting against Arthur on his father's side and afterwards Arthur's great champion: no lands

In Our Campaign, I have skirted the issue, by saying that Gawaine owns a lot of land in Lothian, but is not its King (it is divided between the three stewards, in Arthur's name, as mentioned in Beyond the Wall).

What throws me is the fact that Uriens gets his lands back, while Gawaine, that loyal nephew and one of the greatest champions of Arthur ever, is not given his rightful inheritance? Especially given the hankypanky between Arthur and Margawse/Morgause (whichever spelling you wish to use for Gawaine's Mom) and that Gawaine in GPC is fighting FOR Arthur against his father. Really odd.


Isn't Gawaine Arthur's official heir? As such he probably doesn't mind letting Arthur's people run Lothian for him since he would rather be off adventuring than managing a kingdom, and he knows he (or his heirs) are going to end up inheriting it anyway along with the rest of Arthur's holdings. (I assume Gawaine and Arthur had an understanding that if Arthur ever had a child that superceded Gawaine in the line of secession than he would restore Lothian to Gawaine at that point.)

I have always played it (but it's not in print) that the Lothian men get lands in the north, but not their father's title.

-g

bguy, yes, that could be it, but it is still a... hmm... well it feels like a sign of distrust. Granted, Galegantis carries Arthur out of the Castle of Bones and he gets Clarence rather than Garloth (although Arthur did have an excuse for that and Clarence is not that bad a trade, considering). Gawaine could and indeed should be a King, and he is not, while Uriens is. Can you tell that I am a Gawaine fanboy? :P

Greg, great minds think alike, eh? :)

The GPC is silent regarding which side Gawaine is on in 512-13. Given that taking arms against his father and liege lord would have been utterly heinous behaviour for feudal society, I think you should assume that he's (reluctantly perhaps) fighting against Arthur prior to Terrabil.


You are right, Luke. For some reason, I keep thinking Gawaine was one of the two unrecognized knights dragging Ryons to Arthur pre-Terrabil. No idea where I got that into my head.


2) Gawaine, fighting against Arthur on his father's side and afterwards Arthur's great champion: no lands




In Malory, Gawaine is knighted in conjunction with Arthur's wedding -- after the death of Lot and the 12 kings. So he wouldn't be fighting on his father's side, except as a squire. I don't remember when that is in GPC.

NT