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lclaudius
02-05-2014, 12:37 PM
I'm thinking of running an introductory Pendragon adventure next Friday. The problem is that one of the players is female. In the past, whenever I ran Pendragon adventures I used an all-male cast of characters, even when there were female players. This time, however, I'd like to include a female character, and I'd like to hear some ideas on how to do it.

It would be easier for me to run a ready-made adventure (I'm particularly fond of Tournament of Dreams, but I believe one of the players has played that some years ago). But I can flesh out something if necessary.

Any suggestions?

Morien
02-05-2014, 02:53 PM
By far the easiest option, in my humble opinion, is to allow female knights. You can even use the exact same rules in character generation, and being knights, the female knights play much the same in the adventures. Although of course if the adventure include sexual temptations you'll need to be more careful with the female characters, as the consequences of being Lustful are potentially much more life-changing. Other potential differences might include the reactions of male knights and more opportunity to talk with the ladies.

In our campaigns, the rule of the thumb has been that female knights are rare, but not unheard of. Of course it helps that one of the first generation PKs was a female knight who ended in the Round Table, so that tends to make sure that there is an example for the others to point to, if someone starts grumbling about the suitability of women to be knights. Such grumbling can be heard in the beginning, but once the female knight has a few thousand Glory, the fact that she is a successful, glorious knight is more important than the fact that she is a woman, in the minds of most people. She has proven herself.

Having a lady character in a group can be a bit more problematic, especially from the case of 'canned' adventures, which usually assume an all-knight party. I do highly recommend the Adventure of the White Horse from 4th edition rulebook if you have it, as it is combat light, if you have a lady character in the party. We have one lady character in the current campaign and I do try to keep things interesting for the player, but if the adventure is combat-heavy (as some of the pre-made adventures are), then she may get bored, having little to do other than roll First Aid and Chirurgery afterwards. Important tasks, to be sure, but rather routine ones. An investigative adventure, trying to find a murderer/traitor/embezzler and then a climax of a trial by combat might work better for such a character, and of course other more courtly things.

I am also thinking what might happen if the lady character is actually the liege lady of the male knights. This would put her into more of the deciding seat, and emphasize her leadership role. Has anyone tried this?

The important question is, what kind of character does your female player wish to play?

lclaudius
02-05-2014, 03:11 PM
By far the easiest option, in my humble opinion, is to allow female knights. You can even use the exact same rules in character generation, and being knights, the female knights play much the same in the adventures. Although of course if the adventure include sexual temptations you'll need to be more careful with the female characters, as the consequences of being Lustful are potentially much more life-changing. Other potential differences might include the reactions of male knights and more opportunity to talk with the ladies.

In our campaigns, the rule of the thumb has been that female knights are rare, but not unheard of. Of course it helps that one of the first generation PKs was a female knight who ended in the Round Table, so that tends to make sure that there is an example for the others to point to, if someone starts grumbling about the suitability of women to be knights. Such grumbling can be heard in the beginning, but once the female knight has a few thousand Glory, the fact that she is a successful, glorious knight is more important than the fact that she is a woman, in the minds of most people. She has proven herself.

Having a lady character in a group can be a bit more problematic, especially from the case of 'canned' adventures, which usually assume an all-knight party. I do highly recommend the Adventure of the White Horse from 4th edition rulebook if you have it, as it is combat light, if you have a lady character in the party. We have one lady character in the current campaign and I do try to keep things interesting for the player, but if the adventure is combat-heavy (as some of the pre-made adventures are), then she may get bored, having little to do other than roll First Aid and Chirurgery afterwards. Important tasks, to be sure, but rather routine ones. An investigative adventure, trying to find a murderer/traitor/embezzler and then a climax of a trial by combat might work better for such a character, and of course other more courtly things.

I am also thinking what might happen if the lady character is actually the liege lady of the male knights. This would put her into more of the deciding seat, and emphasize her leadership role. Has anyone tried this?

The important question is, what kind of character does your female player wish to play?


Good suggestions all, thanks!

Your last question is indeed paramount and I have already sent her an e-mail asking exactly that. The suggestion of making her the knight's liege is very thought-provoking, I'll think on it a bit.

lclaudius
02-08-2014, 09:58 AM
Morien, I haven't run the adventure yet (one of the players couldn't make it yesterday). I'll post the results when we play it, probably next Friday night.

Anyway, I talked to the player and I put forth the fine suggestions that I got here and in other forums. In the end, she most liked your idea of being the liege to the knight characters.

I have adapted an adventure that I found in the Internet (The Plight of Duke Ulfius, from the Great Book of Pendragon Treasures). The following is the new background to the adventure:


It is the year 511 according to the chronology of The Great Pendragon Campaign. Arthur has been the High King for a year. The young Robert, Earl of Salisbury, heir to the late Earl Roderick (killed in 495, at the victory feast after the Battle of St Albans) is now old enough to rule. His mother, the Countess Ellen, ruled in his stead for fifteen years, and although he is now of age, he still values her counsel.

Robert is inclined to support the young High King. Although the Countess agrees with this, she wants to make sure that Silchester, Salisbury’s most powerful neighbor, will not make trouble. The aged Duke Ulfius of Silchester is one of the great lords of the realm, and he already supports King Arthur; but there are some doubts as to the leanings of his three sons, who are a troublesome lot.

Countess Ellen travels to Silchester at the first signs of spring, accompanied by a retinue of servants and knights, in order to ascertain the intentions of the duke and his sons.

The player, Camila, will run Countess Ellen and the other players will be her escort.

I'm a bit concerned that one of the other players (Olavo, a very experienced roleplayer), during the discussion about Camila's character, got to musing about transgender characters and in the end decided to create a character that is almost exactly Brienne of Tarth (from A Game of Thrones; http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Brienne_of_Tarth ). I don't think this is a good idea (I have had problems with gender-swapping players in the past), but since this is a one-shot adventure I'll let him play it.

Morien
02-08-2014, 12:30 PM
For a one-shot, I would not be worried about any of it. Nor do I have a problem with players playing characters not of their own gender, although in our campaigns, this has not happened yet. It has been discussed briefly, when one character's only heir was a woman: the player has been musing about playing the lady himself, rather than the lady's husband (when she marries). Especially since you say that your player is an experienced roleplayer. The one-shot will give you the chance to test things out and see if it will be a problem or not.

Generally, I would not go as high as a countess... Although the Countess of Rydychan would work well for a short campaign, when the knights are trying to reclaim her lands in the Oxford Usurpers adventure (The Great Pendragon Campaign, p. 96; Lordly Domains has a more extensive treatment of this adventure). But that is just my preference, feeling that a lower noblelady has more leeway in moving around adventuring and such. And for a bonus, you could say that she has been very (un)lucky in marriage: two husbands who both died soon after the marriage, hence making her a double widow and giving her the independence to take care of her own lands and fate. I am thinking something on the scale of a banneret knight heiress, maybe 8 manors.

lclaudius
02-09-2014, 07:53 AM
Generally, I would not go as high as a countess... Although the Countess of Rydychan would work well for a short campaign, when the knights are trying to reclaim her lands in the Oxford Usurpers adventure (The Great Pendragon Campaign, p. 96; Lordly Domains has a more extensive treatment of this adventure). But that is just my preference, feeling that a lower noblelady has more leeway in moving around adventuring and such. And for a bonus, you could say that she has been very (un)lucky in marriage: two husbands who both died soon after the marriage, hence making her a double widow and giving her the independence to take care of her own lands and fate. I am thinking something on the scale of a banneret knight heiress, maybe 8 manors.


I agree, but this was calculated --- I'm trying to rope them in to start the Pendragon Campaign, and I wanted to give them a taste of the intrigue in the early days of Arthur's reign. The rationale was the same as for the Brienne character: since this is a one-shot, let's experiment with some possibilities.

I had forgotten the double-widow rule, it is indeed a good background.

Gorgon
02-09-2014, 12:05 PM
Just my two cents, but I feel that female players who may not want to play a knight in Pendragon is one of those cases in which making them one of the acolytes of the Lady of the Lake works well. In the fiction these ladies, who are not your standard stay-at-home ladies, come and go all the time to court and even go on adventuring occasionally with knights. They have a lot of freedom to do as they please and they are respected by the King and Knights. It's one of those cases in which I would have no problems using the magic system from KAP 4th edition to make them spell-casters. They would have a legitimate case for adventuring with the players while still being able to help out out in adventures. It's a good way of having female players in the game without forcing them into a Joan of Ark situation that may not fit your campaign, plus it fits perfectly with the legends.

Morien
02-13-2014, 03:22 PM
Making a Lady of the Lake character might work. I would still prefer going via the heiress widow route, as that keeps her 'plugged in' more into the social network. No absolute reason why she couldn't be both, of course. Magic takes a delicate touch to GM, too.

But yes, being part of a network of female enchanters might give a good reason for her to go on quests: 'Gather some knights to go and defeat the Giant Lord Umriet, who lives in the furthest north of this blessed isle, and bring back his ring. We need it to seal the portal to the unseelie realm... Perhaps you should bring those knights along for that, too...' The trick is to try and give her something to do on these quests as well, and not just be a 'quest giver'.

lclaudius
02-15-2014, 11:41 AM
Well, I played the adventure yesterday. It was a four-player group:


Olavo, a very experienced roleplayer, who had played Pendragon in the past, played Nicole, a character strongly inspired by Brienne (from Game of Thrones);

Camila, who played Countess Ellen;

and Tiago and Yan, who played ready-made knight characters (about 1,200 Glory each). Yan had played Pendragon once, a few years ago.


The objective of the session was to present the Pendragon system to the players, and also to let me experiment with a female player, which up to now I had been reluctant to do.

In both counts it was a success. Although the player knights were decimated by the enemy faerie knights, and one of them got mad, they were suitably impressed by the system and its posibilities. Camila had a great night and she thinks playing the knights's liege has great promise.

Our group is now planning what we will play during the next few months. After last night's play, perhaps they will be interested in the GPC.

Thanks for the many helpful suggestions, folks.