I understand that religious conflict is not an important theme in Arthurian literature and in the game itself.

With Christianity being the dominant religion in the game, I'm interested to know if any players place their knights of a pagan faith in direct opposition to the Christian faith?

I am too lazy to type it all up again, so I'll refer you to my 'Arthur, hands off!' -thread, where the eldest son is a militant pagan.

The player's previous character started an effort to foster/preserve Pagan beliefs in Salisbury, and made sure that the village priest was a useless drunkard in an effort to convert the villagers away from the Christian faith to Paganism. He also hired a bard to keep the old songs and customs alive. Alas, he died at Badon Hill, and his eldest son was too young to inherit straight away.

During the interregnum years of the manor, the eldest son disappeared for three years into the Faerie (where he was raised for six years by the faerie folk). When he returned, he found out that the family had been parcelled off to wardships after the death of the grandmother, and that instead of the drunken priest, there was a young, devoted, charismatic new priest who was leading the people in Easter celebrations. The PK ordered the priest to stop the public worship of Christ, and the priest refused. The PK punched the priest down (something of a family tradition, punching priests: the father did the same after one priest sprinked holy water on the 'demon' (faerie) horse and caused it to flee back to Faerie). The priest got up and asked if the PK would like to hit him again, but regardless of that, he would not call the celebration off. The PK backed off rather than to beat the priest to martyrdom.

Now the issue will be that the eldest son has been presumed dead and the younger brother, more 'live-and-let-live' sort of pagan, is the new Lord of the manor. But the PK (the eldest) is not dead and is coming home... Ought to be fun. :)

Also a question I have, do you have any in-fighting in the group because of religions?

At the moment our enitre group is pagan.

The previous generation was evenly split, 2:2. Religion didn't play a major role, although it did provide some color and some good-natured teasing amongst the knights. It was mostly the NPCs that bore the brunt / were fanatical.

The current generation is split 3:1 for the Pagans' advantage. While not causing any in-fighting, it has made the lone Christian feel a bit like an outsider, especially while the other three are celebrating some pagan holiday together. But I expect things to shift once they are back in Salisbury, since then they are surrounded by the Christian society, where the Pagans are the outsiders. Dunno if this helps the PK to feel any less like an outsider in the group itself.

Another group had something like a 1:2:1 (Pagan:Celtic Christian:Roman Christian), and I think the Christians bickered amongst themselves as much if not more than with the Pagan. Still, it was always more like teasing, than actual in-fighting.

So no, in our group, the religion hasn't caused party in-fighting... yet. :P

I wrote a netbook detailing the different forms of christianity probable in Arthurian England, and the differences and possible effects on knights of various flavors. I took it down when WWG asked if they could use see it pursuant to possibly acquiring it; they never contacted me again.

Religion and religious conflict was historically rampant at the time; the subtext is in KAP3's Knight's Adventurous, and KAP4 core, simply by the different religious traits being in conflict.

Logres vs angles and saxons is either (1) Racism, (2) religious pogrom, or (3) both. From a purely military standpoint, the campaigns are far more destructive than needed, even by the standards of the day.

Further, England is the last bastion of the Pelagian Heresy (A form of Christian Heresy based upon no "original sin"...), and noted for being a refuge of Gnostics, as well... plus the supposedly Josephite Grail Christianity, which might have been either and or both heresies at the same time... a land of 4 bishops... and at least 2 christian churches at odds with each other. Maybe as many as 5, if the Josephites are not also the Grailists.

And thats not accounting for the 3 flavors of Paganism (Roman, Celtic, and Wotanic), nor Heathanism, nor Jews.

Lots of room to really go wild with religious distrust and/or conflict.

Heck, one of my players played Deacon Sir Albanus, Miracle Worker.... and his companion, a talking pig.... Knighted, then later ordained. The player, for reference, is an ancestor worshiper... others in the party included a lutheran playing a saxon wotanic, a Wiccan playing a cymric christian, and a wiccan playing a Cymric Pagan. The party was often at religious odds with their liege, the Abbot of Abbydon (Later St. Alban's).

And that's all without adding in the anachronism of the ordered clerics. (Clerics of religious orders are non-extant in Roman/Orthodox christianity until after the KAP period.)

I wrote a netbook detailing the different forms of christianity probable in Arthurian England, and the differences and possible effects on knights of various flavors. I took it down when WWG asked if they could use see it pursuant to possibly acquiring it; they never contacted me again.


If you have nt posed this again, I'd love t post it on my site.

--Greg

Though it might run counter to the Arthurian flavor, I'd be interested in seeing the effects of Lollardy on Arthur's England. T.H. White made it equivalent to communism, and while I'm not sure I would characterize it as such, such a revolutionary and appealing movement could lead to some interesting times.

An interesting idea having a group of Lollard knights in the game, similar to the ones during Richard II's time.
I like the idea of a Lollard knight, like Sir John Oldcastle under Henry V, who organised a rebellion and attempted to kidnap the king.
Hmmm......shades of Mordred there perhaps. Perhaps I'm comparing them too much to Threshers/Thrashers.

Half of my players are modern-day pagans and they really latched on to the idea of playing pagan knights.

So we've got a blend of pagan and christian characters and reconciling the two religions, preventing conflict between them, has become a major theme of the game.

I wrote a netbook detailing the different forms of christianity probable in Arthurian England, and the differences and possible effects on knights of various flavors. I took it down when WWG asked if they could use see it pursuant to possibly acquiring it; they never contacted me again.


If you have nt posed this again, I'd love t post it on my site.

--Greg



I'm revising it for more use, and to include Gnostic and Josephite with a little more detail.

I'm revising it for more use, and to include Gnostic and Josephite with a little more detail.


I hope you will take into account the BoK&L material on this.
--g

Sorry, Greg. Can't. Can neither afford nor borrow a copy; all my KAP playing friends are STRICTLY 4th ed, and paying rent and the car insurance is looking dubious. (I've been laid up all school year; the district refused to continue disability pay in january.) Buying product for an edition I'm unlikely to use for other than reference is, shall we say, likely to get me hurt by the wife. (As an aside: I don't know anyone else beside me with a copy of KAP5 locally; literally, Almost everyone I know into KAP read my copy, and said "No way!" To say it was "not well received" would be an understatement.)

What I have written is a 4th ed supplement, and it makes use of 4th ed magic rules, as well. (Albeit only a couple of the talents: Bless being primary, banish secondary; both are within the realm of what the church teaches NOW....) It's not pretty, and its in need of an editor to put it in better order, but aside from CGen, which is ONLY the qualifications, it's pretty much edition-agnostic. I've redone the illustrations of clerical vestments, as well.

I am so sad that 5th edition was NOT WELL RECIEVED. It seems like it focuses the game a little more , but its not any different than 4th edition. It seems that if anything 5th edition would be the core and then u could add in whatever u wanted from 4th. But I feel that 5th is very much superior when the other supplements are added in. Book of knights, and especially the Book of the manor. The battle book will be a drastic and Awesome change as well.

My heart goes out to you Aramis.
I feel slightly ashamed that I can afford to purchase Pendragon supplements from Hawaii and have them posted to me all the way to the UK. :-[

Still, I agree with Palomydes that the 5th ed is a more focused beast through the process of it being refined.
I'd rather that than a series of drastic and unnecessary revisions to remarket a 'greatly improved new product'.

In some ways I'm not surprised by the fact that a group of players will not let themselves be divided by individual religious beliefs. Players in my experience seem to be drawn more towards political or personal factions/feuds.

I've always had a liking for a diverse group of player characters at odds with one another but have not yet seen an enthusiastic, fervent participation in a religious conflict by players.

As Aramis says there is a lot of opportunity "to really go wild with religious distrust and/or conflict". It's something I've not yet experienced but would be interested to observe.

My heart goes out to you Aramis.
I feel slightly ashamed that I can afford to purchase Pendragon supplements from Hawaii and have them posted to me all the way to the UK. :-[

Still, I agree with Palomydes that the 5th ed is a more focused beast through the process of it being refined.
I'd rather that than a series of drastic and unnecessary revisions to remarket a 'greatly improved new product'.


The biggest issues we had were not liking the non-random CGen, the lack of non-knightly characters in the core, and finding the tables indecipherable. The lack of the magic system is relatively minor. KAP4 is our grail edition. I AM curious about BoKaL, and it's likely the book that could change my and my acquaintances' views of 5th.

And don't feel ashamed about having money to spare. I've ordered stuff online before, and probably will again (right after I sue my employer)...

And if y'all really like what is in it when it's re-posted, y'all are welcome to chip in and get me a copy of BoKaL so I can integrate it.

What's taking the time is that I lost the best edition, and am having to rebuild/retype/rewrite some sections, and I'm also adding a couple rules sections from campaign play since I first wrote it 4 years ago. And peppering some historical notes throughout. Unfortunately, I lost my footnoted edition... so it will have a collection of sources, but not the footnotes. Plus, I need to not be supervising the kids when writing. That means waiting til the wife gets home from work.