I have a difficulty deciding which trait of a pair to roll against. Especially when none of said traits are above 16.

For instance, a lone knight meets a trio of beautiful women in the middle of the wilderness, and the women attempt to seduce the knights with promises of food, water, and sex. Should he roll against his Chaste or Lustful? Should he roll the highest of the two? Should he roll for the one who his in line with his intentions (meaning he wants to be chaste or lustful in this situation)? I think I'm confused since, in this situation, the story is definitely tempting the character with a lustful pursuit. And since a character with a high Chaste will have a low Lustful, should I just ask for Lustful?

It all comes down to statistics two. If I ask for a Lustful first and he succeeds, he can take a check in the opposed trait anyway and play it Chaste. But if I ask for a Chaste roll, he fails then succeeds at his Lustful (there is less chance of this happening than a straight Lustful roll though), he is forced to comply.

Thanks.

I have a difficulty deciding which trait of a pair to roll against. Especially when none of said traits are above 16.
I am going to assume that his traits are all below 16 here

For instance, a lone knight meets a trio of beautiful women in the middle of the wilderness, and the women attempt to seduce the knights with promises of food, water, and sex. Should he roll against his Chaste or Lustful? Should he roll the highest of the two? Should he roll for the one who his in line with his intentions (meaning he wants to be chaste or lustful in this situation)? I think I'm confused since, in this situation, the story is definitely tempting the character with a lustful pursuit. And since a character with a high Chaste will have a low Lustful, should I just ask for Lustful?
Since his Traits are below 16, it is the player's call

It all comes down to statistics two. If I ask for a Lustful first and he succeeds, he can take a check in the opposed trait anyway and play it Chaste.
He can?
Why?
But if I ask for a Chaste roll, he fails then succeeds at his Lustful (there is less chance of this happening than a straight Lustful roll though), he is forced to comply.
Here are a few hints to help
The Gamemaster can always add a modifier to Traits
Perhaps she woman is exactly the type of woman the knight desires most
Maybe she succeeds at a Flirting roll (don't roll it, just say it succeeded. If your player doesn't know how to GM and would give you grief for not rolling, roll the die and say she succeeded with whatever you rolled.)
Maybe she goes way out of her in seduction, pressing her bosom against the knights, playing with his hair, letting her clothing slip.
Any or all of those are reasons to give a modifier.
ALSO, if this is a Test of Virtue (as opposed to an ordinary sexy, horny "maiden") the GM can tell the player which one to roll.

Sir Dom, that's a fair question and one that vexed me as well when I first started playing. The way I handle this is to ask the player which way he prefers his character to behave — scores aside (unless its 16 or more). Want to try and remain true to your Chaste ideal, Sir Christian? Roll Chaste. Want to have a quick roll in the hay with this winsome lass, Sir Pagan? Roll Lustful.

If the player can't make even this simple choice (unlikely, but possible, particularly with newbies who have a 10/10 split in the Trait in question) the GM can make a suggestion based on the Knight's background, history and stated goals. Otherwise, an advantage of even 1 point one way or the other suggests a leaning to one side.

All that and what Greg said!


Best,


T.

I generally allow the player to decide what to roll. This allows the player to have some control on what traits they wish to improve.

And as you noticed, it does matter which trait to roll first. Imagine a character with Chaste/Lustful 10/10. If he wishes to be chaste:

1. Roll Chaste: 50% chance of success, act chastely. 5% chance of fumble, be lustful. 45% roll Lustful.
2. Roll Lustful: 45% * 50% chance of success = 22.5%. 45%*5% chance of fumble, be chaste (2.25%). 45% * 45% chance of do what you want (20.25%).

So in the end:
Chaste: 52.25%
Lustful: 27.5%
Decide for yourself (Chaste): 20.25%

However, the character could choose to roll Lustful first instead, at which point it is about 3-in-4 chance of being Lustful. So which trait you roll has a strong impact on the results. Hence why I leave it to the player more often than not.

Unless, like Greg said, it is a Test of Virtue. A faerie maiden who tries to lure the virtuous knight. That might hit the Lustful trait directly, no rolling of chaste allowed...

Rolls for me (as GM) are ALWAYS against the left column, unless the player prefers to roll on right side traits..
Afterall this is about chivalrous knights (which are all right hand side).

fg,
Dr. Thijs

I always try to go for an opposed roll.
In this case the women invoke lust. So one of the traits would be Lust.
Now is the question what is the motivation of the PK.
Is he on a mission from his lord (for instance a message to a neighboring lord that needs to be delivered in time). This could make a roll of Lust opposed to Loyalty(Lord).
Is he deeply in love with his own wife. It could be opposed to Love(wife).
If there are no other traits or passion that merit I go for the roll against his Chaste.

Of course it all depends on the initial action the player wants to do. If he joins the women without question no roll is required and he gets a check to his Lustful as well. But if he wants to resist the wiles of the women he must have a reason to do so. that reason determines the trait or passion that opposes the Lust

As always many thanks from a humble newbie for all your answers kind sirs.





I have a difficulty deciding which trait of a pair to roll against. Especially when none of said traits are above 16.
I am going to assume that his traits are all below 16 here

For instance, a lone knight meets a trio of beautiful women in the middle of the wilderness, and the women attempt to seduce the knights with promises of food, water, and sex. Should he roll against his Chaste or Lustful? Should he roll the highest of the two? Should he roll for the one who his in line with his intentions (meaning he wants to be chaste or lustful in this situation)? I think I'm confused since, in this situation, the story is definitely tempting the character with a lustful pursuit. And since a character with a high Chaste will have a low Lustful, should I just ask for Lustful?
Since his Traits are below 16, it is the player's call
I used this example since you provided it in another thread of mine (I guess I'm really dense when it comes to traits): http://nocturnal-media.com/forum/index.php?topic=2084.msg16851#msg16851




So someone with Chaste 14 can be chaste all the time without a roll,
Circumstances might also require the character to undertake to roll whatever his Trait value might be.
For instance, the knights meet a trio of beautiful women in the middle of the wilderness, and the women attempt to seduce the knights with promises of food, water, and sex. The knight may be required to roll whatever his decision is.

But maybe you were referring to a Test of Virtue (BTW, is this a concept referred in the rulebook? I couldn't find a mention of it.).




It all comes down to statistics two. If I ask for a Lustful first and he succeeds, he can take a check in the opposed trait anyway and play it Chaste.
He can?
Why?

KAP 5.1 p67 in the paragraph interpreting a Success on a Trait roll.

Success in a trait roll indicates that the knight felt, and was moved by, the feelings expressed by that trait. Thus, if he made a Merciful roll, he feels that he should grant mercy in this instance. However, the player may choose to have the character act in the opposite manner: The penalty for disobeying the roll result is a check in the opposite trait.

But maybe you were referring to a Test of Virtue (BTW, is this a concept referred in the rulebook? I couldn't find a mention of it.).


No, but they are strongly implied and you see examples in the various adventures.

Basically there are two forms of trait check. There are the everyday role-playing ones which are part of the ebb and flow of narrative as it passes between GM and players - the sort of thing where the GM asks the players whether they want their characters to ride through the night or give it up and accept being late for the Earl's tournament, with possible rolls and checks awarded for stuff like Prudent, Energetic, Lazy, Loyalty(The Earl) and so on. Over time the results of these sort of tests will tend to steer the character's personality towards where the player wants them to be.

The second form of trait check is the Test of Virtue. These are the ones where you've got a beat or a choke point in an adventure which requires success on a given trait (or having it at a certain level) before you can progress to another scene. These are much less frequent and form part of the consequences for behaviour as modelled by the first kind of test.

The first ones are usually optional. The second ones are usually mandatory. I also go with Cornelius' approach and try to engineer opposed rolls if I can, rather than sequential simple rolls 'cuz it makes the stats less hinky.

Plus I take input from the players on what should be rolled and I'm happy to modify the traits I call for based on the way that players decide to approach a particular challenge.

Regards
Luke