I am not sure how to play the Ygraine side of things in the GPC

She is about to be introduced to my players. What happens if one of the famously lustful pagan knight PC's makes his lustful by a fair bit and ends up with a directed trait lustful for Ygraine putting his lust for her in the high 20's?

I can see that while she is famously chaste and married to either Gorlois or Uther not much will occur but post 495 what about when she retires to an abbey in Salisbury?

Surely they must pursue her affection?

They will be strong odds on to win in any lustful v chaste roll - so pursuit should have success.

What about when she is nearly kidnapped by Saxons?

Also there is the fact she probably blames them for the kidnapping of her son.

Whose protection is she under? Ulfius ? Ellen? Just the church ?
Would her marriage give someone any sort of claim or political power ( pre 510)

How have other people played it?

My own opinions and all that... Your Pendragon May Vary.



I am not sure how to play the Ygraine side of things in the GPC

She is about to be introduced to my players. What happens if one of the famously lustful pagan knight PC's makes his lustful by a fair bit and ends up with a directed trait lustful for Ygraine putting his lust for her in the high 20's?


I think the rules there are broken (they literally are, as they contradict themselves). I'd simply do it like this:
- Roll Lustful. On a success, gain Directed Trait: Lustful towards Ygraine +1d6. On a critical, it is +2d6. On a Failure, roll Chaste. If you Fail in Chaste, you get Amor (Ygraine) 2d6. Grant checks for successful trait rolls.
- +1d6 ought to be enough to push a good, Lustful Pagan knight towards 20 territory, but not to high 20s or even 30s that it can do based on the current, broken rules. Uther has Lustful 17. I am perfectly happy to claim that he rolls a crit in Lustful and gets something like +10 Lustful towards Ygraine, hence explaining his obsession later on. Note that even then, he didn't just jump her and start humping.



I can see that while she is famously chaste and married to either Gorlois or Uther not much will occur but post 495 what about when she retires to an abbey in Salisbury?


I'd expect even less to happen on her part, for surely once she retires into a nunnery, her Chaste would increase even more.



Surely they must pursue her affection?


The lustful PK? Probably.



They will be strong odds on to win in any lustful v chaste roll - so pursuit should have success.


I never ever allow an opposed Lustful Knight vs. Chaste Maiden seduction rolls. This makes no sense to me that a drooling serial bedder would be able to seduce a nun based on his libido alone.

If the Lustful Pagan wishes to get anywhere with the former Queen, he'd better brush up on his Courtesy, Flirting, Compose, Play, Singing... Like every other poor sob trying to impress a Lady. Or he might just break in, grab her, rape her and force her to marry him. But oh the hurt he will get down the road... :P



What about when she is nearly kidnapped by Saxons?


Rescue the lady is a time-honored knightly pursuit and a good way to ingratiate yourself to the lady.



Also there is the fact she probably blames them for the kidnapping of her son.


Yep, given her 'kill them all' whispers to Uther at the trial. Hate (PKs) 2d6+6, at the very least. Which I would allow her to add to her Chaste for any attempt for the PKs to seduce her.



Whose protection is she under? Ulfius ? Ellen? Just the church ?


Church as far as I know, but trying to get to her would mean going through Salisbury lands. Ellen at least probably has some firm opinions about noble widows getting kidnapped, raped and forcibly married to their rapists, if for no other reason than her own personal safety.

Ulfius might be extending his protection as well.



Would her marriage give someone any sort of claim or political power ( pre 510)


Possibly, if you already have the power to back it up. Hence, I would not be surprised to see Natanleod or King Idres / Prince Mark or Cedric nosing around Ygraine, with the intent of legitimizing their own attempts at the High Kingship (by a marriage to the last Queen). A mere vassal knight is way out of his league, and indeed, might be in more of a trouble to keep his wife if he somehow did manage to marry Ygraine. After all, widows are easily made by killing the husband...



How have other people played it?


We are not in Anarchy in the new playthrough yet, but like said in the beginning, I have diminished the impact of Lustful quite a lot. I suspect that the PKs might think of doing something, or they just might respect her wishes and leave her alone. See the previous comment for some political ideas.

Thanks, I think I will adjust the lustful and other bits as suggested.
The only thing that still seems odd in your take is the Amor. Do you get it if you fail Chaste?

It should probably be more if it is obtained as Ygraine has 32 app ( more than Guenevere!!). I am not sure about introducing the concept of amor at this stage of the campaign.

I only included Amor since it is included in the GPC text of this encounter, which is messed up. It states that if you fail, make a Chaste Roll or gain an Amor of the amount by which you SUCCEEDED at your roll. I choose to interpret this that you make a Chaste Roll and if successful, you get nothing and if you failed, you are moved by Ygraine's beauty enough to get an Amor equal to the points you FAILED by. However, I dislike those margins of failure, preferring the trusty bell curve of 2d6 or 3d6.

Hence:
Roll Lustful:
- Critical: Get a strong Directed Trait Lustful.
- Success: Get Directed Trait Lustful.l
- Failure: Roll Chaste.
-- Success: Nothing.
-- Failure: Get Amor.
- Fumble: You are automatically Chaste for this encounter.

While Amor as a codified concept would be unknown at this stage, surely the idea of trying to make a beautiful woman happy has been part of the species from the beginning and even before. :P If you feel 2d6 is too little, you can use 3d6 which is what everyone is struck by when they see Guenever. I doubt the difference in the APP is significant enough: Both women are The Most Beautiful Woman In Britain of their time. I chose 2d6 because 1) Amor is not as promoted socially at this early stage, and 2) it fitted better with the range implied in the book.

But if you prefer to stick to Lustful, I'd probably have: +2d6 on a crit, +1d6 on a success, +1d3 on a Chaste Failure. Or if you prefer more dramatic, +3d6/+2d6/+1d6, but I'd note that even a successful Lustful check doesn't mean he is suicidal in his pursuit of Ygraine. Granted, on a Critical he might be ruled by his Lust for her, but even then, I don't think he would throw himself at her in open court. :P

I never ever allow an opposed Lustful Knight vs. Chaste Maiden seduction rolls. This makes no sense to me that a drooling serial bedder would be able to seduce a nun based on his libido alone.

Nah, neither do I. Its just silly.

These are my "seduction rules".

Knight rolls Lustful vs the womans Chaste+Honor. Since most maidens and ladies have a Chaste of 16+ and a Honor of 16+ they will crit their roll over half the time, making seduction pretty hard.

Oh, and did you just seduce a noblewoman? Thats not very honorable, is it? Drop one from your Honor. And hope her male relatives don't find out, most of them will have a Hate (you) passion and want revenge. Sexuality is a serious thing, and Pendragon is a game of consequences. If you want to play a lecherous knight, thats a very important choice and seducing noblewomen are very, very dangerous in this setting.

As for Ygraine, this is what i do; anyone that cirts their lustful gets an Love (Ygraine). Thats it. [I have one PK currently very much in love with Ygraine, he even proposed to her after Gorliios bought it].

As for Ygraine, this is what i do; anyone that cirts their lustful gets an Love (Ygraine). Thats it. [I have one PK currently very much in love with Ygraine, he even proposed to her after Gorliios bought it].


Just to note that in Pendragon context, when it comes to romantic love (not Love Concept like Family or God or Grail), Love denotes consumated love, while Amor is the unconsumated one.

Just to note that in Pendragon context, when it comes to romantic love (not Love Concept like Family or God or Grail), Love denotes consumated love, while Amor is the unconsumated one.


So you could use Amor instead, for sure, but that is a somewhat other concept, and I prefer to keep it for the later eras. So the Love passion for me is both consumated love but also "being in love". Amor is not just a feeling, its a program.