Log in

View Full Version : Sword of Justice vs Excaliber



SirUkpyr
09-09-2014, 04:12 AM
So Merlin, with the PKs help, gets the Sword of Justice for Uther.

Question1: Is it the same "Sword of Justice" which is the "Sword in the Stone"?
Question 2: Is it the same "Sword of Justice" which Arthur is using when he meets King Pelinore at the bridge, and which he breaks during their fight?
Question 3: Presuming that 1 & 2 are both "yes", does Merlin have the "Sword of Justice" reforged into "Excaliber" or is it given to him as a new and different blade from the old "Sword of Justice"?

Oh - and IF "Excaliber" is the "Sword in the Stone", where did Uther's "Sword of Justice" go?

If citations from the stories can be given (not just the GPC but the actual legends/stories) I would be grateful. A friend is asking me about all this and I want to ensure I've got my facts right.

Morien
09-09-2014, 09:24 AM
In Malory:

0) Uther has no special sword. (Nor are there PKs running around. :P )
1) Sword in the Stone has nothing to do with Uther.
1a) It is named Excalibur in Arthur's first battle (but see below).
2) It is broken in battle against Pellinore. (Although it is not explicitly said to be the same sword, Arthur is carrying only a single sword, so why wouldn't he carry his best one?)
3) Malory contradicts himself by calling the sword Arthur gets from the lady of the lake Excalibur as well. This is a totally different sword from the Sword in the Stone. (Malory was compiling diverse stories of Arthur's knights and tried to make an overall story out of them, so I think that is where the confusion comes from.) http://www.gutenberg.org/files/1251/1251-h/1251-h.htm#link2HCH0025


GPC follows in this more closely the movie Excalibur. In GPC:
0) Merlin gives Uther Excalibur, the Sword of VICTORY. (As in the movie, but the movie doesn't have the giant or the PKs, of course.)
1) Excalibur is stuck in the Stone before St. Paul's Cathedral. (This could be made more explicit, as the blurbs don't name it save in the adventure blurb on p. 94, and certainly the nobles would recognize it.) (In Excalibur, it was a random rock in the forest and Uther stuck it in as he was bleeding to death.)
2) Arthur uses Excalibur against Pellinore and it gets broken. (As in the movie.)
3) In the movie, the pieces of Excalibur are flung into a nearby lake, and a hand rises up holding the repaired Excalibur. GPC is a bit more coy about this, but the gist is the same.

Hope that helped.

MrUkpyr
09-09-2014, 05:33 PM
Thank you very much, it greatly helped my confusion.

I thought there were non-Mallory sources which has the broken "sword in stone" reforged into "Excaliber".

Are there non-Mallory sources which state that the sword in the stone was Excaliber?

Morien
09-09-2014, 06:01 PM
Looks like Wikipedia is your friend as far as finding a hunting ground of references is concerned:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excalibur

Kilgs
10-07-2014, 03:41 AM
This whole topic was cracking me up the other day. In the GPC it says that Merlin tells the story and history of Excalibur to the Duke of Lindsey.

...Merlin then tells a part of the High History of Excalibur and ends by pulling it from under his robes...

But the text never summarizes it. ;D

Then I was listening to Larkins GPC AP and he got to that point... "and Merlin tells the fabled history of the blade..." I laughed when not one player asked...

"Well, what is the history of it?"
"Yeah, who made it?"
"What's so great about it anyways?"

Kilgs
10-09-2014, 03:07 AM
Interesting theory on the origins...

http://andreapovey.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/excalibur-arthur-pendragons-story-set.html