I have just finished reading 'Polaris', an indie RPG.
It shares some similar themes with KAP. It's a tragedy and the protagonists are an order of noble knights who struggle against an ancient enemy, their own weaknesses and their own people.
In the game the knights are doomed to betray their cause and the people they defend. They inevitably lose their sense of purpose and descend into despair and corruption.
I found the game to be delicately beautiful and poetic.

The designer of 'Polaris' writes of KAP saying that it is the first game he is aware of "with numerical representation and morality". This surprised me because I really did not consider that KAP was that old as a system. Maybe it is because there are not that many games of morality out there, as opposed to certain juggernauts of wargaming RPG's with collectible minatures ;)!

Has anyone else has played a game that shares similar themes to the King Arthur Pendragon RPG? Do you use any of the mechanics of those games in your KAP gaming?

Pendragon is indeed one of the earlier systems, and it surprises me that its emphasis on morality, passions and chacter didn't catch on earlier. I know there are other games out there that do the same now, but I haven't played any others myself that have such an emphasis on it, especially mechanically.

This is why Greg is no doubt VERY proud of KAP and that is why it is his finest achievement( according to him). He is really ahead of his time, in the Morality to #'s thing. ALIGNMENT in games is silly. I would rather play a game that includes no morality than have some cheesy alignment system of things a player would or would not do in certain situations. etc.... Pendragon lets u know what u would do immediately and without any debate. It is an awesome part of the game and the MAIN mechanic that makes it different than everty other RPG. It is , in short, Brilliant. And no other rpg can claim to have come up with it first. Lawful good, chaotic evil... etc..... so very incomplete with a lot left to be ASSUMED! Pendrgaon.... nothing ASSUMED. You can KNOW FOR SURE. I like that most. 8)

I've played Chivalry and Sorcery, which has the whole rulership trope, the knights and ladies tropes, but lacks the whole moral compass element in 1st ed.

I've played several games with morality in rules, some as advantage/diadvantages, some as other mechanics. (WoD's Willpower recovery via Nature and Demeanor; Champions & GURPS Disads, Ars Magica's personality traits.)

But to have a system of reinforcement cycles which adjusts the trait to how you play, and guides you to playing what you are aiming for, that was clearly ahead of its time.

Then again, RuneQuest was ahead of its time, as well...

And there are all the World of Darkness games which pretty much all focus on morality and walking a thin line...

Sadly, I'm only a reader of those games having never taken the opportunity to actually play then, maybe in a couple years after finishing our GPC...

The World of Darkness (WoD) doesn't enforce that morality terribly well. The Vampire Humanity stat is often underused, and frankly, ignored. (Many GM's forget that if the sun ain't down, your humanity is your max dice pool...) and Humanity is often not penalized the way is should be. Werewolf really has no equivalent, nor does Mage; Fae Banality in Changeling is equivalent.

Comparing the 1 moral trait + willpower recovery of WoD to Pendragon is like comparing a broadsword to a collection of carving tools... either will get you inside the pumpkin, and let you carve a face, but the latter is going to make it much easier.

I guess thats the difference between reading and playing.

I've played Chivalry and Sorcery, which has the whole rulership trope, the knights and ladies tropes, but lacks the whole moral compass element in 1st ed.

I've played several games with morality in rules, some as advantage/diadvantages, some as other mechanics. (WoD's Willpower recovery via Nature and Demeanor; Champions & GURPS Disads, Ars Magica's personality traits.)

But to have a system of reinforcement cycles which adjusts the trait to how you play, and guides you to playing what you are aiming for, that was clearly ahead of its time.

Then again, RuneQuest was ahead of its time, as well...


You are the other person that played the original Chivalry and Sorcery?? I still have the original books - well I guess they aren't really books any more, more like stacks of loose pages.

FATAL (http://web.archive.org/web/20080208091645/http://atrocities.primaryerror.net/fatal.html) (nws) sort of has a robust morality system integrated into the rules, except the only morality available is "disgusting excuse for a human being."

I've played Chivalry and Sorcery, which has the whole rulership trope, the knights and ladies tropes, but lacks the whole moral compass element in 1st ed.

I've played several games with morality in rules, some as advantage/diadvantages, some as other mechanics. (WoD's Willpower recovery via Nature and Demeanor; Champions & GURPS Disads, Ars Magica's personality traits.)

But to have a system of reinforcement cycles which adjusts the trait to how you play, and guides you to playing what you are aiming for, that was clearly ahead of its time.

Then again, RuneQuest was ahead of its time, as well...


You are the other person that played the original Chivalry and Sorcery?? I still have the original books - well I guess they aren't really books any more, more like stacks of loose pages.


Mine's not completely shed yet... I ran it once, MANY years ago...

Some brilliant stuff in there... but Oh, My, how poorly lain out. Oh, but for a copy of Pagemaker 4 and a computer that would run it, and the PS printer to make the camera-readies to be given to them...

I've played Chivalry and Sorcery, which has the whole rulership trope, the knights and ladies tropes, but lacks the whole moral compass element in 1st ed.

I've played several games with morality in rules, some as advantage/diadvantages, some as other mechanics. (WoD's Willpower recovery via Nature and Demeanor; Champions & GURPS Disads, Ars Magica's personality traits.)

But to have a system of reinforcement cycles which adjusts the trait to how you play, and guides you to playing what you are aiming for, that was clearly ahead of its time.

Then again, RuneQuest was ahead of its time, as well...


You are the other person that played the original Chivalry and Sorcery?? I still have the original books - well I guess they aren't really books any more, more like stacks of loose pages.


Mine's not completely shed yet... I ran it once, MANY years ago...

Some brilliant stuff in there... but Oh, My, how poorly lain out. Oh, but for a copy of Pagemaker 4 and a computer that would run it, and the PS printer to make the camera-readies to be given to them...


Very poorly laid out. LOL Wilf once admitted as much to me but claimed it was all Ed's fault. ;) Also near impossible to read. The second edition was easier but I hated what they did with it. I haven't looked at the newer versions.
With the group I played it with I had to heavily modify it. It eventually became more of a political game than the standard quest or dungeon crawl.

FATAL (http://web.archive.org/web/20080208091645/http://atrocities.primaryerror.net/fatal.html) (nws) sort of has a robust morality system integrated into the rules, except the only morality available is "disgusting excuse for a human being."


I never had the courage to suggest playing 'Fantasy Adventure To Adult Lechery'.
I would have been assaulted by a volley of assorted hardback manuals and supplements thrown by cat piss men! :)

Yeah. Congratulations to Doorknob for having the balls (haha) to post it anyway.

Exalted has a fairly-integrated "morality" system, though Exalted's Virtues aren't quite there to define a character's morality. Instead, they're there to encourage the character to be "heroic" in the Greek sense, which basically means "totally awesome."

That said, Exalted's system of Motivation, Intimacies, Virtues and Willpower, combined with social combat, is very good for "show, not tell."

FATAL (http://web.archive.org/web/20080208091645/http://atrocities.primaryerror.net/fatal.html) (nws) sort of has a robust morality system integrated into the rules, except the only morality available is "disgusting excuse for a human being."


Having read the review and counter point.... I find it hard to believe that someone wrote the game let alone tried to play it. LOL!

Yeah. Congratulations to Doorknob for having the balls (haha) to post it anyway.

http://www.donatebytes.com/fatal.pdf (double nws)
Anyone up for a game?

Yeah! I'd love a game!

How can anyone resist a game with spells like Bestow Ingrown Nail, Develop Breasts, Force Fart, the various Ejaculate spells and the very disgusting Oroanal spell..............
It's like Hackmaster on acid. :D

Wow, great full frontal racial pics there. Looking at those, it's hard to think of how much AD&D was denigrated for having *shock**gasp*, :o boobies!, in the original Monster Manual!

I've also never seen how you can calculate SF(Scrotum Fullness) with the skill modifiers of Facial Charisma and Bodily Attractiveness in a RPG.

I wonder if there's any chance of including a similar Perpetual Orgasm spell in a new Pendragon supplement on magic? ;)