Some of my players are going to hire there first household knights and maybe even enfeof a manor to somebody.
My question is when you are a 2 manor knight where do you get Household knights/vassal knights.
Of course you would prefer to chose somebody from your own family. but are you as a 2 manor vassal knight able to knight somebody yourself or do you need to find somebody who is already knighted.
If you want to enfeof one of your manors would it then be a fouxpas to knight your younger brother and enfeof it to him if you had an already knighted uncle who is only a household knight and what about the other way round?

Always look to your family first!

Your younger brother, or perhaps a cousin.
Wife's younger brother, or perhaps older brother.

Then, you might ask your liege if he would recommend anyone, but usually there are plenty of folks within your own family to choose from.

Have you watched the Charlton Heston movie "The Warlord"? Your younger brother might work with you as a vassal but be careful and don't turn your back. Also don't forget the loving brothers Dafydd ap Llywelyn and Gruffydd ap Llywelyn. Or Richard and John Plantagenet. Or George, Duke of Clarence, Richard, Duke of Gloucester and Edward IV.

Having your brother as a vassal would give you lots of interesting story lines but.... ;)

Have you watched the Charlton Heston movie "The Warlord"? Your younger brother might work with you as a vassal but be careful and don't turn your back. Also don't forget the loving brothers Dafydd ap Llywelyn and Gruffydd ap Llywelyn. Or Richard and John Plantagenet. Or George, Duke of Clarence, Richard, Duke of Gloucester and Edward IV.

Having your brother as a vassal would give you lots of interesting story lines but.... ;)


One of the problems of the Normans and the Angevins (and especially the Welsh, who pretty much had a civil war per generation!) was that they were in the habit of dividing the realm between their sons. Which of course led to a lot of hard feelings between the brothers (younger sons were bitter about getting a 'poorer' piece, while the eldest was bitter about having 'his' realm divided up). Thus, each brother felt that he had a claim for the other's lands (or at least part of it), which was not the best possible set-up for brotherly harmony.

Also, John plotting against Richard whilst the latter was on a crusade or imprisoned, or Clarence plotting against Edward IV in the midst of a civil war, are quite different from a normal situation. Even in Warlord, the Warlord's brother didn't start plotting until it was clear that the Warlord was off to the deep end, ignoring sound advice of his vassals and brother, and was determined to drag the whole family down. Heck, that treacherous brother was closer to being the hero of the story than Heston's character! :P

As for the original question, yes, Family First, like SirUkpyr said. Especially when it comes to enfeoffing people. Keep the lands in the family! The Uncle might feel a bit slighted, if he has earlier been helpful to the PK, especially if he has done something big like saving the PK's life, he has cause to be pissed. Or if he has high Proud. But otherwise, bros before uncles. Now if you are giving lands to some outsiders, then the Uncle might splutter a bit. Even if the outsider may have been more deserving (more Glory, helpful to the PK), surely Family First, eh, nephew? Sorry, Uncle, not today.

The PK of course has the choice of divvying up lands as he chooses. In our campaign, they rarely have enough land to be dishing it out. More common is the Norman model, where the eldest inherits the choice bits, and the younger brother(s), if lucky, get some outlying manor as vassals of their eldest brother. Otherwise, the PKs tend to be very much inclined to hang onto the manors and just hire household knights rather than make vassals, which makes perfect sense.

There was a conquest in which the PKs helped, resulting in land being doled out by the NPC leader:
1) Lands promised to allies for their military help.
2) Manors given to deserving people: heroics during conquest (some PKs) or long and loyal service of deserving household knights (shading to the next point here).
3) Manors offered to famous/capable knights that the NPC wished to have as vassals to enhance his own prestige and the quality of his court & army.
4) Manors given to family knights. Not that many, though (either manors or surviving family knights!). The NPC's younger brother (a PK) got only one manor. Then again, the NPC had a few sons already who'd need their own lands, and the preceding points had depleted the pool of available manors by quite a lot. Also, play-balance considerations; I as the GM tend to be stingy with granting manors.


As for the household knights:
1) Look to your family. Any one there that might be knighted and supported as a knight by your new wealth? They are the people to elevate, if possible, as it adds to the family's prestige and wealth. Also, their loyalty is two-pronged: loyalty towards you as the head of the family, as well as their liege.
2) Suggestions from the liege lord. Not only will you gain some brownie points from him by following up on his suggestions, but he might be able to send some good people your way. Or he might send you some trash ('the cousin of my wife's sister-in-law, try to keep him out of trouble, he is a bit simple and my wife would be upset if he were to die') that he was collecting some brownie points on from someone else. In any case, potential story hooks!
3) Knights that are still unattached (mercenary/knight errant types, or former household knights whose lord has died) who are famous or who have helped you in the past. Wouldn't go amiss to have a couple of proven Veterans in the household knights.
4) Look to your (ex-)squires. These are people that you yourself have trained and watched for 6 years. You know them, they know you, and that should be good for a loyalty bonus right there. Or a penalty, but then you wouldn't be hiring that little weasel, now would you? Especially if this is, say, a few years after the first squires have been knighted, giving them some time to be seasoned... now, in their mid (late?) 20s, those ex-squires might be in a good condition to be enlisted as household knights.
5) Look to your friends' families (and even squires). Nothing cements family alliances like crisscrossing web of obligations and ties. Also, if you take one of his brothers as a household knight, he might take one of yours (now or later, when your brother grows up), making it a win-win.
6) New alliances with other families by asking their sons as household knights? Politics by patronage.