I was just wondering what all should players need to have/need to do before they begin moving up the ranks of knighthood.

For example, what all should a player need to do before he is made an officer or a banneret?

I'm just wondering because in the campaign that I am running, I just had a PC who led the group through the battle of lindsey. The group performed miraculously during the first rounds of the battle. Because of this and because the lead PC wanted that magical axe, they decided to go after King Octa. Only one knight was lost (a PC, my first PK ;D), and two NPC's where knocked unconcious. I feel that this PC should be rewarded for this. After all, his unit performed extremely well in this battle and he has also been in charged in past battles. Is this worthy of a promotion to bannerett? Should he be given castellanship if one is available, or possibly made a deputy marshall for his ability on the battlefield?

Thanks in advanced for everyone's input.

First things first: Of course it is appropriate to reward the outstanding knight. The reward can come in many forms; gold, cows, a wife. A couple of enfeoffed manors are certainly a possibility, in effect making the knight a banneret.

However, this is not "promotion". It is a reward. I know that some people like to refer to the knight's role in the feudal hierarky as military, but that is actually quite misleading as it makes us think of modern military organisations. Knights are warriors, not soldiers. They hold land in return for military service, that is true, but knights have other responisbilities as well; as land owners and leaders of peasants, as local government and keepers of law and order, as advisors to their lords, etc. And the knight's position is based on a personal vow of loyalty to his lord. This is very unlike the modern military, where the soldier is essentially an employee in the service of an organization.

There is no promotion, only the very personal relationship between a lord and his vassals. A good lord will be generous and reward his vassals in situations like the one you describe (this generosity is called largesse), but it is not promotion.

Hope this helps,

Peter

Yes, that helps a lot.

Let me go ahead and apologize for my poor choice of words. I completely understand what you are saying about knighthood vs. modern military. Thanks!

Don't apologize. You have done nothing wrong.

Whilst I agree with the previous answers by Peter and reward/recognition in the form of largesse, any Lord will want to surround himself with Knights of proven ability. And it is here that orate and courtesy may come into play. You (as GM) know what the knight did, as does the Knight. The Lord knows only what he is told, or hears, or can see the result of. Personally I think the reward of a Banneretcy (although land grants could enable him to acheive this by default) or higher position for one action (although mention is made of previous things) is too generous: an alternative form of recognition (and the start of the greasy pole to climb) could be to have him taken on a household knight. Perform well in this role and he could then become an officer.

Much will depend on the Lord's perception, what his immediate needs are, and what the Knight does to "sell" his tale of heroism.

Chris

# 1 to consider..... are there any officer positions available or would the Lord be creating one that did not exsist? You cant just appoint people because they do well in battle. U expect your men to do well and then reward them with Libra or lands. Also most Lords would not just be able to CREATE more Bannerets willy nilly. They have a certain amount of land only, and if they go giving it away for every other knight who does well on the battlefield, then they will have none left. Also, the GPC i believe states that if Octa is captured Uther Gives Players about 100Libra to split. So the reward you come up with should be about the same. A suit of chainmail is about 2-5 libra and a charger is about 20 libra. So he has given enough to equip 4 knights( more or less). Not bad. though maybe not overly generous either. As for officers, I am lead to believe that the majority of officers would come from household knights. A vassal knight already has a lot on his plate with tending his own manor(s). Also a banneret I think, would be a step Down from officer as far as wealth goes, right? A oficer may get a stipend of 10-20 Libra or whatever per year, but he has to maintain his clothing which must be very nice and he must use most of his cash to maintain a rich lifestyle. I think in the end that it is true that the officer would have more ready CASH on hand than a banneret, but that a banneret is still far wealthier because he has LAND. And men to follow him and that owe him service, etc...., not to mention a demesne manor or three as well for xtra cash probably... so I dont know if your average vassel would want to be an officer necessarily, but Im sure granting him a few demesne manors or Libra per year through fish tax or road tax, or nearby city tax might be appropriate. Also granting him castellanship of a fort or castle if one is vacant might be in line too. And PLEASE do not forget my favorite form of reward. THE EMPTY BUT LOFTY SOUNDING TITLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! " You sir so&so are named the Lord Protector of South Derry and Warden of the southern Marches, and are entitled to a 3librum per year share of grain which is milled at the town of oxhead, and are granted 4 libra of extra income yearly from the manor of buttnose near the yary river, etc. ::)"

Whilst I agree with the previous answers by Peter and reward/recognition in the form of largesse, any Lord will want to surround himself with Knights of proven ability. And it is here that orate and courtesy may come into play. You (as GM) know what the knight did, as does the Knight. The Lord knows only what he is told, or hears, or can see the result of. Personally I think the reward of a Banneretcy (although land grants could enable him to acheive this by default) or higher position for one action (although mention is made of previous things) is too generous: an alternative form of recognition (and the start of the greasy pole to climb) could be to have him taken on a household knight. Perform well in this role and he could then become an officer.

Much will depend on the Lord's perception, what his immediate needs are, and what the Knight does to "sell" his tale of heroism.

Chris


I also use Intrigue. ;D

In the end, do what you think would bring the most enjoyment to the group of players (yourself included).

Were the players enthusiastic about the great deeds at the battlefield that day? Was this an important event for you, the real people, in the campaign? If people cheered (or grunted with appreciation, or whatever signals you guys give out revealing enjoyment) and talked about it afterwards, as real-world players not fictitious knights, then it is an important event.

Since you aren't keeping track of every single manor and every knight (I hope), who is to say how many bannerecies or manors are available at any given moment? In the end, only the sensitivities of you and your group can determine what is appropriate or not. Now, if you hand out big rewards every other session, the rewards will lose their meaning, of course, but that's not what we are talking about here, right? You want to do something special in a situation that you felt was special in your game. Do it.

Enjoy!

Thanks to all of you who replied with your ideas. It really has given me a lot to think about, and I figure I might as well share what I have decided.

The leader of the group divided up that nice 100 libra reward almost evenly among the PC's that survived (alas, 1 did not) and even gave some libra to the 2 NPC's in the group (These NPC's have been with them from the beginning, I have used them to aid in beefing up numbers of nights if needed and to round out the squad in battles and skirmishes).

I am going to provide the player with one of the NPC's as a vassel to him, not making him a bannerett, but providing the opportunity to see how he does with a knight in his direct command all the time.

After looking foward in the GPC, there are still many battles left in the Uther Period. Battle of Terrabil is next year, then they help Merlin and etc.

I think that waiting to see how the PC does through the rest of the period will determine what happens. If his luck and skill continues as is (battle of 18 or 19 right now), he is setting himself to be a good choice for marshall.

And for some added wickedness, you can give him the banneret after a few more battles, just about the time to be invited to the feast after St Albans...

Bear in mind that the players should have the wealth necessary to support other knights, as they would need to do as bannerets. There are knights who have had to turn down such rewards because they couldn't afford it-- like having to refuse a Mercedes because you can't pay the taxes on it.

ALSO.... Don't be afraid to give him the HONOR ;D , of being the new BANNERET of the HAUNTED lands. Lands that have a monster/curse/ etc... bad thing. Its an honor and also, crappy too. The player will have to accept the honor and his lord will hope that the player has the prowess to un-curse the lands. That is fun and rewarding. After several years of helping clear the crap land he will find that it makes him fairly wealthy. AWESOME. Whadda u think?

The boys on This Olde Fief are gonna have their hands full. They have to both replace the joists and clear out the man-eating wolves.

Hi,

One of my knights is now a banneret and this was via marrying the right lady, he romanced and flirted the socks of Lady Adwen from the book.

Cheers,

BigSteveUK

OK, so I've decided that the knight will be rewarded with a household knight to take on. This will be a new knight and was an NPC's squire.

I do have some questions in regard to the loyalty lord passion and how this will work. I'm assuming that Earl Roderick is the one who would knight this squire and then pass him off to the care of the PK.

So does this new knight end up with 2 loyalty lord passions, 1 for the Earl and 1 for the PK who's house he lives in? Or does he have just one passion? If there is just one, who does it apply to, the Earl of the knight who is in direct command of him?

How much intrigue to you want to have? If little, I'd say have him take Loyalty to the PK, his immediate lord. If you want lots of intrigue, have the two loyalties. If the new knight doesn't know the PK, then his loyalty may grow to him and maybe lessen for the lord that knighted him.

I usually just have the Loyalty to the PK...

So does this new knight end up with 2 loyalty lord passions, 1 for the Earl and 1 for the PK who's house he lives in? Or does he have just one passion? If there is just one, who does it apply to, the Earl of the knight who is in direct command of him?


He has two separate passions.

--g