Thanks to a PK's death and some creative joint fiction between the player and myself, I have a very fun opportunity to try out the legal rules in Book of the Warlord. The background can be found in this thread (http://nocturnal-media.com/forum/index.php?topic=2623.msg19556#msg19556).

In summary, we have the following situation:

A "Grandfather" takes two wives. He keeps the first marriage hidden, has children from this first marriage, but treats the children from the first wife like unrecognized bastards when he marries his "second" wife.
The "Grandfather" dies, leaving his oldest "recognized" son (from the 2nd wife) as his heir. Technically this heir should never have inherited (he wasn't the oldest), but he was powerful and the "unrecognized" side of the family was weak so they did not press a claim at this time.
The "recognized" son died, leaving behind a 2 year old daughter as his sole surviving heir. The "unrecognized" half of the family sees this as an opportunity to press a claim.
The "recognized" side of the family swears fealty to Roderick. Roderick took ownership of the estate, is taking income from it, and has assigned the 2 year old daughter's uncle (from the "recognized" side) as her guardian. Once comes of age, he will marry her off to someone of his choosing (she is basically the same as the heiresses in the KAP 5.1 rulebook).
The "unrecognized" side of the family swears fealty to Sir Blains, Steward of Levcomagous
We know from Book of the Warlord that Levcomagus has been subinfeudated to Blains from Ulfius, so in effect, the "Unrecognized" side of the family would have some allegiance to Ulfius


So my question is this. In the GPC Roderick and Ulfius seem to get along pretty well. They both seem to be powerful supporters of Uther, and are both among his favorites. In this particular situation, I think Roderick would definitely prefer to keep the property under his control, but the "Silchester" side has a very strong claim IMHO so Ulfius has a chance to get this manor for one of his vassals. I plan to use the legal rules in BotW, but I was curious if Roderick and Ulfius would come to some sort of agreement here, or if they would press the Sheriff (or Uther) to rule in their favor. They are both well liked by Uther and both are among the King's favorites. In the Uther era, I'd normally just have Uther rule with his favorites, but in this case I think that both are basically equally well liked. Would they even get involved at all here?

I already gave my opinion in the original thread, so I won't bother rewriting it here.

I do disagree that Silchester has 'a strong claim'. It is a bit flimsy, thanks for the grandfather keeping the first marriage hidden (how?). Presumably he didn't get his liege lord's approval, so Roderick is under no obligation, IMHO, to accept the marriage and its offspring as valid. But I guess that is why all the lawyers might get involved.

Normally, Roderick and Ulfius might back off and let the knight-level people argue about this. However, Roderick has a very good reason to interfere now, since he has a feud with Sir Blains, the liege lord of the challenger. So Roderick definitely doesn't wish to lose this legal fight, while Ulfius is likely more 'meh' about it. So in Uther's math, that means if he rules for Roderick, Roderick is happy and Ulfius doesn't care, but if he rules for Blains, then Roderick is pissed and Ulfius still doesn't care. Win Roderick.

Secondly, Roderick has ALREADY ruled on this. The manor went to the claimant from the second marriage, since the first marriage people apparently didn't challenge (or were over-ruled). That means he -might- feel beholden to look after the heiress' rights.

Thirdly, Roderick himself benefits from defending the heiress, unlike if instead of the heiress, there would be just another knight-claimant. Granted, you can claim that Ulfius might benefit from having a knight feeling loyalty to Levcomagus / Silchester in charge of that one manor, but frankly, it is one manor. Is it worth it to piss off Roderick and use whatever counters Ulfius has with Uther?

In short, good reasons for Roderick to fight this, relatively poor reasons for Ulfius.

I feel the "Silchester" side of the family's claim is strong because technically he is the oldest male relative and the "Salisbury" family should never have inherited in the first place. I agree with you that the time for that dispute has passed. I also agree that Ulfius probably wouldn't risk the ire of a friend over a single manor. Most of all, I agree this situation would probably have never happened in the first place, but it's a case of it being so fun I'm willing to go with it. Besides, if we were going with strict history, "Grandfather" probably wouldn't have been pagan in the first place.

In this case, the fun of the scenario trumps the simulation aspect for me. I can't wait to find out how it turns out. 8)

Sure, fun ought to trump everything. Especially since it sounds your player himself is behind this plot twist. :) And certainly there is enough there to at least get the lawyers into the court to argue about this. It would be best for Silchester side if they don't push it all the way to Uther. The lower judges would be more amenable to bribing.

I am not sure if the Canon Court would have any standing whatsoever, especially with Uther being less interested in what the Church might feel about it. Furthermore, the Grandfather being pagan might mean that there was no priest to say amen over the proceedings. That of course could be the alternative route. Since there is no 'valid Christian marriage' here, then both marriages happened outside the church, and they are equal. Hence, the eldest son should have inherited, and he is making the claim now.

I still think it is pretty flimsy on the Silchester side, but worth a shot. Of course the alternative way of handling it would be to simply suggest a duel to deal with it all, but I think you wanted to give the Litigation a go. :)

I see this as a great opportunity to show off the corruption of the courts in the Uther era. I hope to make a strong contrast with Arthur when he comes around. 8)