*ba dum tish*

So the GPC advises that 50% PK casualties are to be expected, but how lethal is Badon for NPC knights? That is, for the kingdom as a whole.

Clearly Arthur loses enough knights for opportunists to think him vulnerable... but not quite enough that he really is. (though the force he brings to battle in 519 is small)

There aren't any named knights mentioned or suggested as casualties, but it's clear that there are openings on the round table for some time as a result of Badon. I notice that Ulfius isn't mentioned alive anymore after Badon, so I'll probably give him a proper send off there.

I guess there is also: who isn't at Badon? Does every knight in the kingdom muster?

*ba dum tish*

So the GPC advises that 50% PK casualties are to be expected, but how lethal is Badon for NPC knights? That is, for the kingdom as a whole.



Clearly Arthur loses enough knights for opportunists to think him vulnerable... but not quite enough that he really is. (though the force he brings to battle in 519 is small)

The real number is not really important, but I usually say that he had about 30% killed and 50% wounded


There aren't any named knights mentioned or suggested as casualties,

Well,the ones killed are the ones who are not at the forefront of NPCdom :)


but it's clear that there are openings on the round table for some time as a result of Badon. I notice that Ulfius isn't mentioned alive anymore after Badon, so I'll probably give him a proper send off there.

You may
He deserves to do out that way
I think in the literature he actually retires to a monastery and lives up to the grailquest... :o


I guess there is also: who isn't at Badon? Does every knight in the kingdom muster?

Yes, every knight, many many of the footmen including garrisons; squires and esquires
it is a very desperate thing
All the Saxon tribes unite for this
and many more come from the continent and the north to participate in what they think will be a great victory with plenty of plundering
In skirmishes before the battle I ask for heraldry rolls (no modifiers) to recognize the Saxon banners--no one knows who they are, even if they crit their rolls (ie, strangers!)
Same on the battle field each day

I think in the literature he actually retires to a monastery and lives up to the grailquest... :o

There seem to be a lot of those old geezer hermits kicking around Arthurian Britain.


The real number is not really important, but I usually say that he had about 30% killed and 50% wounded

Yes, every knight, many many of the footmen including garrisons; squires and esquires

Appreciated.

I mostly wanted to know what was fair for when I start crossing off uncles/cousins/brothers, etc. The players also voluntarily surrendered some aging back-up characters a few sessions back. (Knights they played once or twice during the Uther period when their mains were injured)


In skirmishes before the battle I ask for heraldry rolls (no modifiers) to recognize the Saxon banners--no one knows who they are, even if they crit their rolls (ie, strangers!)

That's a nice little detail. Thank you.

Wow. I just noticed that I am harsher than Greg when it comes to Badon. :P

I'd bump off about 50% of the knights. Sure, not all of those might be dead-dead, but they would be 'dead knights', losing enough limbs and health to be forced into early retirement.

I will definitely also use it as an opportunity to clear the table of some of the older names, too. Ulfius is a good one to kill, but I will likely kill off Leodegrance as well. King Alain of Escavalon is on the kill list too (doesn't appear after 514 in GPC, although in 4th edition, he is the King still in 531, but I don't care :) ). I think I will go ahead and get rid of Sir Cador the Elder (of Cornwall), too. (As for Sir Cador, there is a doubling of his joining the Round Table, first as an early appointee in 514, and then in 525. Given his age and a discussion had in this Forum, a suggestion was raised that there are actually two Cadors of Cornwall, the father and the son, and it is the latter worthy who is leading Arthur's household knights until 540 or so, followed by Constantine of Cornwall, his son.)

Wow. I just noticed that I am harsher than Greg when it comes to Badon. :P
I'd bump off about 50% of the knights.

:D
I have actually knocked off about half of my player knights too
those old once-used characters suddenly become more interesting :)

but it's clear that there are openings on the round table for some time as a result of Badon. I notice that Ulfius isn't mentioned alive anymore after Badon, so I'll probably give him a proper send off there.

You may
He deserves to do out that way
I think in the literature he actually retires to a monastery and lives up to the grailquest... :o

I seem to recall Ulfius being the hermit/monk who helps heals Lancelot during one of his Guenevere incited madnesses.

:D
I have actually knocked off about half of my player knights too
those old once-used characters suddenly become more interesting :)


Wuss! TPK! :P
(In my defense, I was moving town and this was before we discovered the wonders of online gaming via Skype. So might as well go out with a Bang.)

I meant that I would also kill 50% of the NPC knights.

I only managed to kill one measly PK. In my defence, I must add that two was very serverly wounded.

I also killed of Brastias, Ulfius (!), Escan of Clarence and six NPC knights who had played out their part in my campaign.

And I think said that half of Arhurs knights were killed.

There aren't any named knights mentioned or suggested as casualties, but it's clear that there are openings on the round table for some time as a result of Badon. I notice that Ulfius isn't mentioned alive anymore after Badon, so I'll probably give him a proper send off there.

I thought Ulfius lived until 523. His son, Uffo, is described as "the new Count of Silchester" that year, and Uffo is rebelling over being denied his father's honors, which sounds as though he just came into his inheritance that year. (Ulfius is also such the consummate survivor that it seems appropriate for him to survive the wars and get to die in his bed during a time of relative peace.)

Now if Ulfius does die at Badon that could shake things up quite a bit. Uffo will likely still expect to be granted all of his father's honors, and if he doesn't get them then we might see the Silchester Rebellion break out 5 years earlier. In the immediate aftermath of Badon, with the Irish and Picts attacking in the north and Anglia also rebelling, Arthur may not be able to put a Silchester rebellion down.

I thought Ulfius lived until 523. His son, Uffo, is described as "the new Count of Silchester" that year, and Uffo is rebelling over being denied his father's honors, which sounds as though he just came into his inheritance that year. (Ulfius is also such the consummate survivor that it seems appropriate for him to survive the wars and get to die in his bed during a time of relative peace.)


Good point. But see below.



Now if Ulfius does die at Badon that could shake things up quite a bit. Uffo will likely still expect to be granted all of his father's honors, and if he doesn't get them then we might see the Silchester Rebellion break out 5 years earlier. In the immediate aftermath of Badon, with the Irish and Picts attacking in the north and Anglia also rebelling, Arthur may not be able to put a Silchester rebellion down.


Well, this is Arthur we are talking about, wielding the Sword of Victory. But it would make the Silchester Rebellion a more dangerous one, rather than the idiotic suicide that it is in 523.

If Ulfius dies in 518, then his honour reverts to the Crown for a year as the escheator works. So that takes care of 519. Also, Arthur is up North fighting the Picts, so it makes sense he wouldn't hurry this along. In 520, he is back in the South, and while there is the Battle of Fort Guinon, Arthur doesn't participate in that. So there is little reason to think that he would not give Uffo the Silchester inheritance in 520.

Now, this doesn't necessarily mean that Uffo would explode instantly in rebellion. He could try to be smart about it, and try the legal complaints, first. That would give a bit of build-up to the rebellion, and make the sons of Ulfius seem a bit less idiotic. That would take care of 521. So, that brings us to 522, with Uffo fuming about the insults he has been given, and the denial of his 'rights'. Sounds like a perfect cat's-paw for Morgan Le Fey, right, as we find out in 524. So she works on him during 522, and promises allies and aid, most significantly, getting rid of Merlin.

Now, we know that Merlin disappears in 523, mainly via Nimue. But we could easily believe that Morgan and Nimue would have been working in concert, there, or that Morgan would have nudged Nimue towards that decision to get rid of the love-sick wizard. Arthur sends his knights to look for Merlin, and that would be the time for Uffo to rebel, when most of Arthur's knights are out.

Instead of the relative dud that is the Silchester Rebellion in GPC, with Uffo just closing his borders and switfly besieged, you could have the Silchester Knights even march towards Camelot, an earlier version of what happens during the Grail Quest with the Cornish armies. Salisbury is one of the few counties close enough to do something about it, and with the big Round Table Knights gone, this would be an opportunity for the PKs to shine. That of course means that the fighting spills over into Salisbury as well, forcing the knights to defend their own lands, too.

So something like:
1. Pentecostal Court: Merlin disappears and Arthur sends his knights after him.
2. Summer: Uffo rebels and marches an army towards Camelot. The people defend the city with fierce loyalty towards their king (and also, to keep Uffo's mercenaries away from their loved ones!) whilst the knights of Salisbury (PKs) and Hampshire (Hantonne or whatever that will be called in Arthur's time) gather to relieve the city. A small battle is fought outside Camelot, and Uffo retreats back to Silchester?
3. Late Summer: Uffo skirmishes with knights loyal to Arthur (PKs and others), raids and counter-raids.
4. Autumn: Arthur's RTKs return, as well as armies from other counts. Silchester is placed under siege.
5. Winter: The siege is lifted so that the people won't starve.
6. Early Spring 524: The siege is restored.
7. Late Spring 524: The city surrenders, but the sons of Ulfius have slipped away in Early Spring.

I think that would make the Silchester Rebellion from something that is suicidal by Uffo into something that might actually have managed to kill Arthur and plunge the realm into chaos, had things gone slightly differently. Also, it gives the PKs more of a role in thwarting it.

EDIT:
I started a new thread on the Silchester Rebellion specifically. Please go to here:
http://nocturnal-media.com/forum/index.php?topic=2633.0
if you wish to discuss the Silchester Rebellion, and leave this thread to be about Badon fatalities specifically.

Shamefully I only killed 1 player knight (well one main family player knight, also killed one player's backup knight and basically all of their old barely used backup knights)

Of course one thing that helped them survive was the love (family) rolls and loyalty rolls they got to make as cousins, brothers and sons died in droves around them.

I found Sir Brastias, as a monk, in GPC Year 560 as Lancelot is exiled by Guinevere.

Easily enough ignored, though. :)