Greetings all,

Roman characters are described in The Book of Knights & Ladies as having "Loyalty (city) 1d6+10 or Loyalty (emperor) 3d6."
I wonder if any of you have given thought about this difference.

I presume "Urban Roman" characters as described in the Continental Characters section would have loyalty to their city.

What types of Roman characters would be loyal to the Emperor?
What about those from predominantly Roman cities in Britain? (Carlion, Cirenchester, etc.).
The option "Loyalty (Lord)" might also seem to make sense in some cases (Dorset, etc.)

Thanks for any insights.

--
M

Roman characters are described in The Book of Knights & Ladies as having "Loyalty (city) 1d6+10 or Loyalty (emperor) 3d6."
I wonder if any of you have given thought about this difference.
I have!


I presume "Urban Roman" characters as described in the Continental Characters section would have loyalty to their city.

Probably


What types of Roman characters would be loyal to the Emperor?
What about those from predominantly Roman cities in Britain? (Carlion, Cirenchester, etc.).

Ah, I was not entirely clear
The Emperor = Emperor of Britain
Now, King Uther never quite makes it to this status, although King Arthur sure does
Heck, he becomes Emperor of Rome!
And in Uther's time the cities of Logres are loyal to him too


The option "Loyalty (Lord)" might also seem to make sense in some cases (Dorset, etc.)

In those cases the Lord is also the Lord of the city, the head of the city Senate

the Head of the City Senate is the Lord? i thought the roman law style cities were run by four elected officials and a (at the time of it's fall ) hereditary City senate/decurion advisory which i assume is what most of the patricians are in Britain

i seem to have messed up my Game :'(

the Head of the City Senate is the Lord? i thought the roman law style cities were run by four elected officials and a (at the time of it's fall ) hereditary City senate/decurion advisory which i assume is what most of the patricians are in Britain

i seem to have messed up my Game :'(

no
You seem better informed than I, so go with your interpretation
Yes, the senate are the patricians of the area
Maybe you can write up something about the rule in roman cities for us?

i'll do my best! Though to be honest i'm not sure how much applies to uther's time.

Cavet: while i strive to preserve Historicity. my knowledge of Roman empire particularly in Late Antiquity/ after the fall/ during the Rump States period is a reflection of a hobbyist interest and not a formal knowledge.

From my understanding the municipia (roman towns or cities) of Britain would be all Urban 2 cities in BoKL that haven't otherwise been brought to heel by outsiders or subverted by inside usurpers. it's hard when putting yourself in the mindset of the residents not to imagine a post-apocalyptic mentality after the fall of Rome but, the truth is that the Romans of Britain have survived without Rome but by the strength of her laws for three-quarters of a century. this seems hard to swallow until you realize that each Municipium was designed to run much more independently than modern local governments. in this sense the become something akin to a mini rump state.

so how are they structured?

Decurions (which is also the title of a roman cavalry officer) were the members of the city senate, they were the wealthiest of the township and for all intents and purposes the patricians of the area. (i couldn't track down hard numbers on how many there are in one Municipium ) this patrician idea is further backed up by the fact that the post was hereditary. they served an advisory and financial role. the city was governed by for elected officials. the Aediles, elected by the Senate to serve in a role similar to a superintendent, bailiff, and steward rolled into one but with the authority to mete out justice in pursuit of those duties. the other two magistrates are called duumviri who's job was to administer justice. together with the Aediles the form the official board of four that ran the Municipium. i don't know how they broke hung decisions between the four of them. my gut instinct is that the duumviri traded Imperium monthly like consuls. i don't know for sure though.

i use love family for a patrician's house and i don't use Loyalty Lord or City. I use Loyalty(senate) because it sounds better in my head than loyalty city even thought it's the same. Loyalty(lord) is unnecessary although i could see certain officials being a problem if they gain to much fealty personally from other senators.

Great!
Anything else you can think of?
Any specific references you can think of?

Anyone else want to chime in?

-g

Great!
Anything else you can think of?
Any specific references you can think of?

Anyone else want to chime in?

-g


i'm hitting the library as soon as i get my grad school applications out. i'll get back to you!

quick update from reading Imperium Romanum: Politics and Administration http://www.amazon.com/Imperium-Romanum-Administration-Andrew-Lintott/dp/0415093759
and The Municipalites Of The Roman Empire http://www.amazon.com/Municipalites-Roman-Empire-FACSIMILE/dp/B008I8B97E/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1430436227&sr=1-4&keywords=roman+municipalites procured from my local library.

the Decurions had to have served as Decurions in the army[although a rare infantry made it) and be of the equestrian class to be in the city senate the magistrates were not required to be but as rome declines the Decurions impose more restrictions altering the city constitution. by 443 with the death of Constans and no one claiming vicarship the only one standing of for the little guy is the church but they don'y have much legal enforcement so the defensor (a pleb office that looked out for the common man and had enough power to make the other magistrates obsolete was disbanded and assemblies rendered impotent. the Aediles who were mostly ceremonial anyway do to the defensor could be done away with. cities still maintaining the senate would most likely only have two duumviri with any of the following resolutions to disputes between the two:

a. the younger defers to the elder
b. the senate votes in the issue after both sides debate (most likely a the senate had the right to veto any duumviri decisions anyway)
c. they trade imperium monthly so not an issue

it also maybe that the senate selects a Propretor Equestrius to command the armies and have imperium either alone (as a dictator) or in concert with the duumviri (kind of like a triumvirate)