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View Full Version : Coiffeuse is to Valet as Couturière is to Tailor?



Basileus
04-29-2015, 04:40 PM
Morien,

Thanks for clarifying the costs of Foot Men and Lady's Maids, that resolves things nicely.

I did notice one more thing that may not actually be an error, but could perhaps use some clarification, at least for me - the Lady's Coiffeuse would seem to be analogous to the Knight's Valet, both can provide short term APP bonuses with a successful skill check. However, the Knight's Tailor can provide APP bonuses with a Fashion check, but the Couturière does not have the same ability. I was wondering if that was by design, or if it was an omission and similar rules as the Tailor should be applied to the Couturière. In a similar vein, is the Tailor's bonus from clothing limited to £1 = +1 APP, or could a wealthy knight spend more libra to increase the bonus for each suit of clothes?

Morien
04-30-2015, 09:21 AM
We were getting a bit constrained by space, but yes, I'd say that you are on the right track there:
Couturiere should work as a Tailor for ladies, although I would add two clothiers (£0.5 each) to her price to help her actually make those clothes. Alternatively, you could just multiply the time needed, so instead of a month, it takes her three months. But that is OK. That is basically spending the winter making a new gown for the Lady to wear at Pentecost. By the way, I would allow this for the Tailor, too, since he is currently a bit crap compared to the Valet, and most knights do not need 12 outfits per year.

As for the clothing APP bonus, as rules are currently written, you can spend more money to get increasingly large APP bonus.

Personally, I feel that the linear scale is too generous and you should use an logarithmic increase instead. For instance, multiples of 3 in price giving +1 in APP:
£1 = +1 APP
£3 = +2 APP
£10 = +3 APP
and so forth. This would prevent from insane bonuses like +10 APP.

However, assuming you are already using the Valet and Coiffeuse APP boni as given, giving the Tailor/Couturiere to create something magnificent for big bucks is not that much of a stretch. I mean, if you use the +1d6+3 APP from £1 per year Coiffeuse, it is insane to demand that the Couturiere should spend £300(!!!) for the same bonus.

So, here are your options:
1) Use rules as given: each £1 in materials gives +1 APP.
2) Change Valet and Coiffeuse in your game to give just +1 APP on a successful roll, and switch to logarithmic on the clothing boni.

It very much depends how important APP is in your game. In normal KAP, I'd say you are fine with the current rules, since APP doesn't do much, and you are unlikely to play a baron spending £10 on clothing as a default. However, if you are using a lot of APP rolls, especially if you allow for financial gain from it, then you need to be careful not to give too great boni -> curtailing the boni you get from clothing & entourage members helps with this.

I hope that answered your question and then some. :)

Hzark10
04-30-2015, 02:30 PM
2 points:In earlier phases, clothing and APP do not mean as much as battles are more important. What does it matter if you look pretty, but can't defeat those Saxon hordes. So, I would make APP much less important. By the time you get to the Romance era, the clothing and APP mean so much more.

I think we need to add either a simple modifier for the phase, or a more complex method as time moves on.

Morien
04-30-2015, 03:30 PM
2 points:In earlier phases, clothing and APP do not mean as much as battles are more important. What does it matter if you look pretty, but can't defeat those Saxon hordes. So, I would make APP much less important. By the time you get to the Romance era, the clothing and APP mean so much more.

I think we need to add either a simple modifier for the phase, or a more complex method as time moves on.


Rather than changing the rules, this should be a simple function of cost-effectiveness:

Early Phase: Saxon hordes threaten, get as many foot soldiers as you can with your Discretionary Funds! (+1 in APP helps not at all, 2 extra foot soldiers might save your lands from a Saxon raid.)

Late Phase: Who cares about soldiers, spend that money on fine clothing and valets and coiffeuses etc! (+1 in APP is better than having 2 'useless' foot soldiers.)

Basileus
04-30-2015, 08:56 PM
Perfect, thanks for the answers Morien - they clear up everything nicely.