Hello everyone!

So we're playing through the Great Pendragon Campaign, and we're using the Book of Battle 2nd edition. It's been going well. To help smooth things along we've started divvying up certain tracking jobs to everyone. I've (somewhat by accident, but I'm happy to do it!) ended up with the job of tracking glory during battles. I was doing this by hand on paper, and I think we were using a rough approximation of all the different rules for tracking glory. After the last session I realized I could make a spreadsheet on my iPad to track everyone's glory, and that I could have the spreadsheet handle all the calculations (Did you crit against those Batter Berzerkers? Great, double glory!), and track everything so at the end of the battle I can just tell everyone what what glory they received from the fight. The GM doesn't have to do more than tell me some basic info at the start, and the glory for each foe we fight, and everyone else can focus on playing (and I keep myself engaged and paying attention the whole time since I need to track everyone's results. Everyone wins!).

So far so good for the most part, but now that I'm using a spreadsheet to track everything I think we can do a better job of following all the various glory rules and circumstances (or at least most of them, as a group we of course may decide to jettison some, but I want to be sure we understand them all before making that decision), rather than the (close, but not exact) approximation we've been using. I've got most of them down I think, and worked out, but I have a few questions I wasn't really quite clear on, and I'd like to get them cleared up so I can integrate them (or not!) into my spreadsheet.

The first questions I have concern the base glory of a battle.
So for (infamous) example, the battle of St. Albans: The GPC book give the following glory in the glory entry: "Glory: 60 per round, x2 for Decisive Victory." We've been using this entry (for each battle in the GPC) as the base glory that the knights get, and the glory from foes goes on top of that. I assume that's correct?
-We haven't been giving that base glory to knights who are wounded or inactive for whatever reason. Is that correct?
-I notice in the Book of Battle, on page 70, there is information on some (paltry) glory that an inactive/wounded knight receives while inactive. Is that instead of the base glory for the battle? Or is that on top of it? (the same goes for the glory given for knights who are held in reserve).

And Knights being held in reserve brings up my second set of questions (well maybe just one). On page 70 after the chart giving the glory for reserve knights, is the following "Furthermore, they collect double Glory for the first two rounds in combat after coming out of reserve." does this mean double ALL glory? Double the glory for foes defeated? Double the numbers listed above on that chart? Does this mean that if a knight were held in reserve for one round and then sent into battle they would receive more glory than knights who'd been fighting from the start?

Thank you in advance for any help anyone can offer. Please let me know if you have any questions or if I haven't made anything clear!

Caveat, I haven't used BoB myself. But reading the rules (p. 70 onwards):

"Glory for the Round
Each unit has a basic Glory value. This is a relative
measure of how tough, renowned or flamboyant
they are, as well as other, more subtle factors. The
Glory award for the round is found by multiplying
the enemy’s basic Glory times the melee result
modifier."

So no Glory for Battle Size here, just for those people in Reserves and Inactive. For those in the fight, it depends what enemies they defeated, or not.

Thus, the follow-up question about reservists: No, they will only get double the Glory from enemies that they face.

After the battle: Modify the Glory won during the Battle by the result and the size of the battle. These are multipliers, so you don't add the GPC Glory here.

Now, Leaders get the Glory that depends on the battle size, too.


So as an example:
A Large battle that lasts 3 rounds, each round fighting successfully against some foot soldiers (say Glory 10), and the Battle ends in a Decisive Victory.
Follower knight: 10 per round (x1 for success) = 30 x2 for Decisive Victory x2 for Large Battle = 120 Glory.
Leader knight: 10 per round (x1 for success) = 30 x 2 for Decisive Victory x2 for Large Battle + 45 for leading (unit commander) = 165 Glory.

Thank you Morien,

I appreciate the reply, but most of what you talk about is stuff that I already knew (leadership bonus, size and result modifiers etc.). I didn't make some things clear enough which probably led to some confusion about what I needed to know. I'll try to make things clearer:

1) Regarding the GPC glory, you say "These are multipliers, so you don't add the GPC Glory here." Do you mean that we should simply not be using the GPC glory at all, or just not not at that stage of the calculation (which I never assumed was where it would be added in). What I'm specifically asking is this: Should we be using the GPC glory at all if we are using the Book of Battle to track the glory from individual engagements etc?

We've been basically using the glory listed in the GPC as a base level of glory for the Player Knights per round, and then just adding everything else on top of that. Is that right or wrong? Or is that really there so that if you aren't tracking the glory from each round you still get an amount of glory commensurate with the size/import of the battle?

1a)If we ARE doing things right in using the as a base glory and then putting everything else on top of that, does that "base glory" (in the example of St. Alblans, 60 glory per round) also stack with the glory a knight gets per round if they are in reserve or injured? Or are those instead of the "base glory" for the battle? (Obviously if we AREN'T supposed to be getting that "base glory" then this question is moot).

2)Knights coming out of reserve: I'm going to assume you're right that the "double glory" is for foes fought, (that's kind of what I was assuming but I wanted it confirmed explicitly). What is the reasoning for this? Is it just there so that knights held in reserve have a chance to "catch up" a little bit if they were held in reserve for a while?

Hopefully I've made everything clearer, and not confused things further.

What I'm specifically asking is this: Should we be using the GPC glory at all if we are using the Book of Battle to track the glory from individual engagements etc?


No, you should not.



We've been basically using the glory listed in the GPC as a base level of glory for the Player Knights per round, and then just adding everything else on top of that. Is that right or wrong?


Wrong.



Or is that really there so that if you aren't tracking the glory from each round you still get an amount of glory commensurate with the size/import of the battle?


The GPC is using the OLD KAP 5.1 Battle System, which does not track individual battle round enemies. It didn't matter if you were fighting a peasant or a knight, it just mattered how many rounds you were engaged. In fact, it was better to beat up on peasants, since you'd get more Successes...

Book of Battle uses a new system where you track the individual rounds with glory from the enemies you actually face, and then in the end add multipliers based on the size of the battle. It SUPERSEDES GPC&KAP Battle System, so no, you do not add GPC Glory IN ADDITION.



1a)If we ARE doing things right in using the as a base glory and then putting everything else on top of that, does that "base glory" (in the example of St. Alblans, 60 glory per round) also stack with the glory a knight gets per round if they are in reserve or injured? Or are those instead of the "base glory" for the battle? (Obviously if we AREN'T supposed to be getting that "base glory" then this question is moot).


You are not doing it right, so the question is moot.



2)Knights coming out of reserve: I'm going to assume you're right that the "double glory" is for foes fought, (that's kind of what I was assuming but I wanted it confirmed explicitly). What is the reasoning for this? Is it just there so that knights held in reserve have a chance to "catch up" a little bit if they were held in reserve for a while?


A chance to catch up a bit and also, from the realism perspective, they are probably summoned to the fight when the things hang in the balance, so their impact is greater. "We would have lost, were it not for the timely charge of Baron Reservist throwing the enemy back in confusion." That would be my excuse, anyway.

I hope this clarifies things for you? :)

Absolutely, that answers my questions. Thank you! And the idea of the reserves "saving the day" and therefore getting extra glory, makes a lot of sense narratively!

Thank you so much! I think I've got everything else figured out and am ready to track glory much more accurately than before! I'll update if any other questions come up but I think the rest is pretty clear to me. Thanks again!

Ok, one more question that came up last night!

I think I know the answer, but I'm not totally sure.

One of the enemies we fought last night (Dual-armed heorthgeneats) get a missile attack on us before we engage in melee. So for that round we split (or didn't as the case may be) our weapon skill between dealing with the missile attack first, and then melee (in my head narratively this meant they got a shot at us as we were closing in to fight them). In one case one of the Player Knights got hit by the missile attack (so he "lost" that part of the round), but then won against the Hearthguard when he engaged him in melee.

For the purposes of glory what does this count as? For last night we counted it as a win, because that felt more right, and it kept the game moving, but now I'm reading through the book of Battle and I can't tell if this is right or not.

Second related question:

For the purposes of calculating unit results, it _seems_ like this counts as both a loss and a win? (thus eliminating the chance of a triumph?)

One of the enemies we fought last night (Dual-armed heorthgeneats) get a missile attack on us before we engage in melee.


I couldn't find these guys in BoB. Are you talking about "Dual-armed warriors"? There are also "veteran elite heorthgeneants"... In Book of Armies, there are Archers (Dual-armed heorthgeneats), are you talking about those?

The reason why I am asking is that different rules apply to each (as far as I can tell):

Only Wotan's Men get BOTH Missile AND Melee attack in the same round (the MM marker).

Dual-armed warriors are actually two units, one of bowmen and another of macemen. Thus they get two attacks (Missile and Melee) and the knights have to split the skill, just as you did. And yes, both results would be counted separately, so that knight getting hit by javelin and winning melee would count a Loss and a Win for that round. p. 70: "Each opponent that’s fought counts when determining Unit Results. If a knight fights two, beats one, and loses to another, then the unit can’t Triumph." For purposes of Glory, both are counted separately: so he'd get 50% of the Glory for Missile phase and 100% of the Melee phase, for a total of 1.5 times the Glory award for that round.

Veteran elite heorthgeneats would fight EITHER Missile OR Melee, not both.

Archers (Dual-armed heorthgeneats) would be Missile troops, only attacking in missile combat.

Ah, I see.

I think we were looking at the "Archers(Dual-armed heorthgeneats)" from page 95, and assuming that they were equivalent to the "Dual Armed Warriors" (on page 94), but I do see now that there is no x2 on them, so they aren't quite the same.

I think we've also been playing the x2 units like the Wotan's Men. As one unit that attacks twice.

So when we get a result like the "Dual Armed Warriors" which are an "x2" unit, we should simply be treating them as two separate units? So they effectively count for (potentially) double glory?

Hmmm... I might have to update my spreadsheet if that's the case to add the possibility of more foes than I'd originally planned for...

Oh! and of course the question of how to deal with a group like the Wotan's Men with both a Missile and a Melee attack remains.

If you just substitute them into my example above, how do we handle glory in that situation?

Oh! and of course the question of how to deal with a group like the Wotan's Men with both a Missile and a Melee attack remains.

If you just substitute them into my example above, how do we handle glory in that situation?


Well, the rules state that you collect Glory for each skill contest when you divide your skill. Thus, it doesn't actually matter if you are facing a MM unit (Wotan's men) or two units (dual-armed warriors): you get Glory for Missile phase as normal (win/lose) and Melee phase (win/lose).

That is my reading of it, anyway. Same as if you run into two regular (one attack) units, who force you to split your skill.

Thank you. I'll have to look hard, becuase my reading of the rules on the two attacks was rather ambiguous, with no clear answer one way or the other (hence my question!). All the examples involve two different units making attacks, not one unit making two attacks. Anyway, I'll read closely and I guess we'll just have to make a decision for ourselves on how that works.

Thank you again for your help! If nothing else you've forced me to look closer at the unit lists and notice some subtleties I had missed before!