Hi everyone! I'm new to the forum, and quite new to Pendragon (I played a single session around 2-3 years ago, and I've been GM-ing the GPC for a few weeks). And I have a question about the Traits and Passions.

Some times, the GPC requires a critical success on Passion and Trait rolls (the two cases I remember right now is not drinking anything at The Infamous Feast and asking the Grail questions). Do I get it right that these generally have 1/20 chance of succeeding, but it is at least theoretically possible to raise Traits and Passions over 20 with Glory bonuses, and thus get better odds?

Hi everyone! I'm new to the forum, and quite new to Pendragon (I played a single session around 2-3 years ago, and I've been GM-ing the GPC for a few weeks). And I have a question about the Traits and Passions.


Welcome! :)

Sure, go right ahead and ask all the questions you want. You will find us a quite friendly bunch over here, and even Greg (Stafford, the creator of Pendragon) is quite active on the Forum, giving his answers and views from time to time.



Some times, the GPC requires a critical success on Passion and Trait rolls (the two cases I remember right now is not drinking anything at The Infamous Feast and asking the Grail questions). Do I get it right that these generally have 1/20 chance of succeeding, but it is at least theoretically possible to raise Traits and Passions over 20 with Glory bonuses, and thus get better odds?


Yes, Trait and Passion rolls use the same rolling mechanism, so if you roll exactly the same as the score (Temperate 13 and you roll 13), then it is a critical roll. You can get Traits and Passions to 21 or more with Glory or Experience (Winter Phase Step 2, if you roll a 20), in which case you add the part over 20 to the 1d20 roll (so 21 -> 1d20+1) and if the result is 20 or more, it is a critical.

It is also possible to get Passions extremely high since the Rules As Written state that every time you roll a critical Passion, your Passion goes up by one right now. Now I personally find this extremely unbalanced, since it makes a positive feedback loop and allows Passions to increase explosively once you get them going past 20, unlike any other score. To make it more balanced, IMHO, I'd simply allow for a instant experience check roll, in addition to the normal experience check to be rolled at Winter Phase. This helps a lot at low Passion levels, but doesn't allow the Passion to 'explode' at 20+. Alternatively, and this might in fact be a better alternative: The passion gets +1, BUT it can only get that once per year. I don't mind so much that some Passionate Knight spends 20 years getting the passion into 30+ territory, I object to the +5 in a year.

Thanks!

I think that at least for now, I don't mind the positive feedback loop - making a player knight outperform Galahad looks hard enough anyway! Also, it feels quite good that in Pendragon, to abuse the system, you have to become The Knight Who Loves His Wife The Most, or something like that.

Also, you don't get the loop with Traits, right?

I have found the explosive passion tendency to be a very two-edged sword. In one campaign where I was a PK, one of my knights had a Love: wife that went that way. Eventually, he was over 30 when the campaign ended. Now, my wife (one of the daughters of King Ryons) had it worse. She had Love: husband (my character) at 39 if I remember it correctly. WE both were heading for madness as the GM were creating worse and worse situations for us because of our love for each other. Remember, while under a Passion, if you fail to complete the task, you go mad and become the game-master's property for a bit. Many things can happen while mad, including events you would not normally do.

Now, I do not remember getting more than 3 or 4 a year in the worst case, but it was 2 usually when it came up and that was starting to become more and more frequent.

Also, you don't get the loop with Traits, right?


You don't get that loop with Traits (nor Skills, obviously), since the critical roll doesn't increase the Trait automatically, unlike the Passion.

WE both were heading for madness as the GM were creating worse and worse situations for us because of our love for each other. Remember, while under a Passion, if you fail to complete the task, you go mad and become the game-master's property for a bit. Many things can happen while mad, including events you would not normally do.


In other words, you end up with either a superhero or an unplayable character, which is a bit too binary result for my liking. :) We have had plenty of 'problems' with 'mere' Passions of 16+. Picking up fights with Saxons, straight up murdering a Round Table Knight due to impassioned Hate...



Now, I do not remember getting more than 3 or 4 a year in the worst case, but it was 2 usually when it came up and that was starting to become more and more frequent.


Yep, and that is something I find problematic. I'd rather cap it to +1 per year. That way, you'll need some time to become that Passion 39 knight.

It is not impossible to start with a Passion of 19, especially in Amor or Loyalty, once you stack up all the bonuses. Loyalty Pendragon and Loyalty Group are especially easy to get bonuses to. Too easy IMHO, when compared to Loyalty Lord. Which is why in our campaign we don't use those +6 same kingdom and +1d6 same culture bonuses, since those result in 4d6+6 -> average 20, even if the group members are from different sides of Logres and have never met before... Instead, it is 3d6+shared adventures & background.