I decided to turn this event into an adventure unto itself. The PKs find the wounded messenger, attacked by fairie creatures in the Forest of Gloom. As it turns out, they failed to heal the messenger properly and he died (as the GPC states, he's Prince Mark's squire). One of the PKs decided to open the letter as his curiosity took the better of him, breaking the seal, and ripping the letter. I guess Lady Ellen would be pretty angry at having her personal correspondence opened by anyone other than herself but would there be any consequences to the knight who broke the letter open? Also, bear in mind the PK knew full well he was opening not only personal correspondence, but a royal message.

OK, so the letter is sealed by Prince Mark, to be delivered by his now dead squire, addressed to the Countess and bearing an offer of marriage between Prince Mark and the Countess...

If no one speaks of the letter, nothing happens. The Countess isn't expecting the offer, so how would she know?

However, if someone betrays what happened to the Countess, I would expect her to be a bit miffed at the interference from the knight who destroyed the letter (and the other knights for keeping silent about it). After all, even though she is not interested in marrying Prince Mark, this is imporant, high-level correspondence. By destroying the letter and keeping silent about it, the PK(s) have deprived her of very useful information, and potentially caused a diplomatic incident with one of the most powerful kingdoms in the land, since the Countess' non-reply is an insult to Prince Mark. Also, how can she ever rely on anything this knight tells her from now on, since he might be manipulating the information 'for her own good', depriving her of a chance to make an informed decision? Who is the leader here, exactly?

At the very least, I would expect a throughout, scathing tongue-lashing delivered at the imbecile who destroyed the letter. Deprived of offices (since obviously he cannot be trusted), and getting some shitty assignments from now on (patrol duty in the middle of the winter, hunting down dangerous monsters kind of thing). Honor penalties (-1, -2?) would be reasonable, too.

I quite agree with Morien. Unless the PK had been entrusted to such information beforehand (which in my campaign, they were in Ellen's inner circle and had save Robert at least once by now), they were in breach of their liege's trust. At the very least, 2 honor for that knight, and an investigation as to how many others knew of this and kept silent? They would also lose honor.

At the very least, I would expect a throughout, scathing tongue-lashing delivered at the imbecile who destroyed the letter. Deprived of offices (since obviously he cannot be trusted), and getting some shitty assignments from now on (patrol duty in the middle of the winter, hunting down dangerous monsters kind of thing). Honor penalties (-1, -2?) would be reasonable, too.

I think I'm an evil GM. :D
I'd say it's much worse, bordering on treason. He is willingly breaking his fealty to his mistress for his curiosity. Granted, the crime would be much worse if he opened the letter if he himself was supposed to deliver it. But the end case is, he finds it. It's his duty to bring it to his mistress.



5+ points: something important (disobey direct order from liege, serious insult, seduce a noble woman, something that damages old friendships, etc.)
10 points: (it affected relations between two counties, publicly embarrassed the count, caused a battle to be lost)

Depending on the consequences. I'd say unless the knight finds a good way to defend his case he is in serious trouble. I'd say this definitely falls in the 5+ category at least.

The player should also loose a definite amount of Fealty(Ellen).

This being said!
I'd also reward the player for his treachery some how. Ok, the player is willing to risk his entire knighthood for his curiosity? Was there something EVEN more useful in the letter? Perhaps something he can use to his own advantages? If he manages to arrange the marriage himself, perhaps Mark will award him? Or the squire carried something very valuable? Now... if only the other knights would shut up about what happened... all is well.

At the very least, I said. :)

One thing I'd take into account as the GM is if the player knew the magnitude of his knight's actions. Frankly, if he plays it well, confessing to the Countess and claiming to have been overcome by the insult offered to the Countess by the marriage offer, he might escape punishment.

Another thing to keep in mind is how secure the Countess is and has the PKG done any favors in the past.

At the very least, I said. :)

One thing I'd take into account as the GM is if the player knew the magnitude of his knight's actions. Frankly, if he plays it well, confessing to the Countess and claiming to have been overcome by the insult offered to the Countess by the marriage offer, he might escape punishment.

Another thing to keep in mind is how secure the Countess is and has the PKG done any favors in the past.


I agree with all of this. All in all, it's rather arbitrary. I also consider Ellen to be a rather soft "judge" on these matters. Perhaps she let's the players of the hook, but several old-school knights in the court might continue a vendetta. In my campaign, several older knights served Ellen out of duty. But they did consider her weak-willed and "womenly soft". They petitoned to have her son Robert serve with he hardest and cruellest man in the county, to let him get some dirt under his fingernails and learn to be a man.

This is a rather useful brainstorming. The knight is known for being uncouth in court and for being a reckless man. He was involved some years back in a rather serious diplomatic incident in Malahaut when he attacked a saxon delegation breaching the hospitality of Heraut de Apres. He was banished from court by Earl Roderick, though he was later pardoned when Roderick died and Lady Ellen sought knights who supported her cause. This type of action is not unlike his character and the player knows fully well that his character is Reckless and fully embraces this. Short of executing the character (which the situation does not warrant) and confiscating all his properties (which is more punishing to the player than needs to be), I always seek hooks for future stories and adventures.

Some ideas:

Loosing 1 or 2 points of Honor.
Showing repentance in full view of the entire court. Check in Modest.
Garrison duty in some out-of-way post where life is such a drudgery (Energetic / Lazy) and the daily routine draws the entire place into a false sense of security.
The other PKs may also find themselves in the same situation as they were present when the letter was torn open and did nothing to stop him (Honest / Deceitful to hide their part in it).
I can also see how one of the PKs, who is dying to show his loyalty to Lady Ellen, be torn on this matter: Loyalty (Lord).


Ultimately, I don't want to punish the players but rather show them the consequences of such an obvious breach of confidence and let the story flow from there.

I'm always confused as to whether Honour is public or personal in KAP. If it's personal, he should lose the points anyway; traits and passions are as much reflections of the character's actual mindset as they are indications of how he is perceived by others. Similarly, the Loyalty ([Ellen]) passion.

If he's a serial offender, he's obviously not learning from previous punishments; banishment is pretty serious, and he's had his second chance. It's a difficult thing to handle when one player insists on going his own way, but if Ellen finds out about this (and the other knights should tell her), the offender should be excluded from her counsel, and any responsibilities removed. Ellen should get or increase a "Mistrust [mail thief]" directed trait, and possibly lose some trust in the rest of the PKs if they delayed or havered telling her of the perpetrator's actions. As well as the repentance and garrison duty.

In this case, the consequence should be a punishment. Reckless is as dangerous socially as it is martially. Extravagant swings of fortune prompted by PK excesses are part and parcel of the Arthurian experience, I feel, and they have to swing both to the weal and to the woe ends of the pendulum's arc.

Again, I'm bringing down the hammer of doom here. But I fully believe that the consequences of the culture should effect the play. And opening the personal correspondence of your liege lord is a SERIOUS breach of trust. In my campaign, if Ellen did nothing about this. She would loose the support of several of men in her court. She would look weak. (Then again, in my campaign, the players in this age could not read, so it didn't matter!) :)

THAT BEING SAID. I still would REWARD the player for actually playing his character and adding to the game play, despite everything. I would give him a large benefit of some kind by knowing this information in the letter. I would give him opportunities to use this information. Perhaps he can blackmail someone important? Show the player that if they brake the rules of the system, the risk loosing everything. But they can also gain by taking from others. Show him the path and possibility of being a "bad" knight. Perhaps a strange man approaches him, offers him land or riches if he helps him arranging the marriage? Tempt the player...


Some ideas:

Loosing 1 or 2 points of Honor.
Showing repentance in full view of the entire court. Check in Modest.



I would increase this to at least 5. And give the option to the player to push it back up with 1-3 points of honor, depending on how heartfelt and political the apology is. This is all depending on if the player's actions is known or not. If the action does not become known, I would still probably lower the Honor with a point or two. Since at least the other knights know he is a liar, and even if they do not tell on him. They will start acting like his is less honorable. Also, again only if he is found out, I would let Ellen strip him of his officer-tittles and all other things (gifts and pleasures). Putting him to death is not really Ellen's right. If this WAS High Treason, it would be a matter for the kings court. But this is Anarchy... Ellen needs to prove that she is strong. If she let's this slide. Other knights will start taking advantage.


Some ideas:

Garrison duty in some out-of-way post where life is such a drudgery (Energetic / Lazy) and the daily routine draws the entire place into a false sense of security.



This depends. Is the knight a Vassal Knight, a Lord or a Household knight? If he is a Vassal, Ellen could not drag him of his land more than necessary, since he is needed there. And a wise lord would not waste the 40 days of service as "punishment".



Some ideas:

The other PKs may also find themselves in the same situation as they were present when the letter was torn open and did nothing to stop him (Honest / Deceitful to hide their part in it).
I can also see how one of the PKs, who is dying to show his loyalty to Lady Ellen, be torn on this matter: Loyalty (Lord).



To go with your system of adding to the game. Pressure the other players with conscience. I would reward them with a loss of Loyalty(Lord), a check in Decietfull. And perhaps a loss of Honor of 1-2, depending on if they actually lie for him.

Finally, a few thoughts of my own:
If his treason is known: If Ellen forgives him (again). Let another knight with high honor in her court challenge him for his honor.
If his treason is known: Let other knights or character with LOW honor take note of the knight. He has shown himself to be willing to risk everything. This would make him a perfect target for either being tempted or blackmailed. "You are one of US now..."
If his treason is NOT known: Did he keep the letter? What if someone finds it?! A servant? Perhaps he needs to get rid of the servant to protect his lie?
If his treason is NOT known: Why do the other players not challenge his breach of honor? I can see why they do not tell on him, each mans honor is his own. But why do they not challenge him to tell Ellen? After all, the information in the letter could turn the tide of the wars. "You should tell our Lord of what you found. You are my brother, but I will not lie to you. I will not defile my honor to hide your lack of it."


I don't think honor should be a way for GM's to "punish" players that refuse to play the standard knight. It should be a part of the play. I try to reward goof role playing either way. But IF the player is found out... I doubt he would be trusted from that point forward.

Again, I'm bringing down the hammer of doom here. But I fully believe that the consequences of the culture should effect the play. And opening the personal correspondence of your liege lord is a SERIOUS breach of trust. In my campaign, if Ellen did nothing about this. She would loose the support of several of men in her court. She would look weak. (Then again, in my campaign, the players in this age could not read, so it didn't matter!) :)

At this point, she doesn't know anything, but Sir Alan of Gloomvale, an ambitious NPC, who does not see a woman fit to rule the county know everything. Sir Lycus (from the GPC) is loyal to Sir Alan and he was present when the PK opened the letter, and he told Sir Alan everything (not that the PK made a secret of it). There's a lot of potential there, specially for courtly intrigue. Will Sir Alan blackmail them or tell Lady Ellen? Sir Alan's ambition is to rule the county, even to the point of marrying Lady Ellen (and killing young Robert) or siding with King Idres for support (at this point, King Idres is still fighting Durnovaria so his future defeat is still unknown).


THAT BEING SAID. I still would REWARD the player for actually playing his character and adding to the game play, despite everything. I would give him a large benefit of some kind by knowing this information in the letter. I would give him opportunities to use this information. Perhaps he can blackmail someone important? Show the player that if they brake the rules of the system, the risk loosing everything. But they can also gain by taking from others. Show him the path and possibility of being a "bad" knight. Perhaps a strange man approaches him, offers him land or riches if he helps him arranging the marriage? Tempt the player...

Unfortunately, the PKs know nothing of the contents of the letter. The PK who opened it failed a Read (Latin) roll so he didn't fully grasp the contents. None of the other PKs know how to read, so the letter is a wild card that I can expand as it suits me.


I would increase this to at least 5. And give the option to the player to push it back up with 1-3 points of honor, depending on how heartfelt and political the apology is.

Yes, all good things to be considered.


This depends. Is the knight a Vassal Knight, a Lord or a Household knight? If he is a Vassal, Ellen could not drag him of his land more than necessary, since he is needed there. And a wise lord would not waste the 40 days of service as "punishment".

A vassal knight. It was only one of many things to consider. At this point, I'm still filling in the blanks.



Finally, a few thoughts of my own:
I don't think honor should be a way for GM's to "punish" players that refuse to play the standard knight. It should be a part of the play. I try to reward goof role playing either way. But IF the player is found out... I doubt he would be trusted from that point forward.


Players are always entitled to do stupid stuff. This is what makes roleplaying so unpredictable.

The player will mostly likely be exposed (unless he accepts Sir Alan's offer/blackmail). But even if all things come to an end. That's what heirs are for. :-) There are many types of death, and social death is one of them. But then again, the PK should carefully consider his next step.