How do people deal with annual income during the Winter Phase?

Some property have annual income in their descriptions and others don't. I know a manor brings in an average of 6L.

Also, the Standards of Living (Impoverished, Rich, etc.) all have the libra amount that must be spent to maintain the lifestyle. Does this mean this much money must actually be spent by the player each year, or is it just to give the player an idea of how rich he/she is? Do you earn extra annual income if you are a Rich or Superlative knight?

I guess my big question is: How do you handle annual income in your campaigns?

How do people deal with annual income during the Winter Phase?

The rules are in the Great Pendragon Campaign and/or the 5th edition Pendragon rules. If you have either or both in pdf you can search for the page numbers. There are more detailed rules in the Book of the Manor.



Some property have annual income in their descriptions and others don't. I know a manor brings in an average of 6L.

I'm not sure what you're talking about here. Do you mean the enhancements in the Book of the Manor? Or just manor's in general? The default manor has an income of ?6 per year, which for a typical knight pays for his typical knightly lifestyle with nothing else left over. Some manors have more income and others less. The Book of the Manor has rules for building enhancements that will often improve a manors income such as planting orchards. It also has rules for the population expanding in your manor and if handled well by a character this can result in increased income as well.



Also, the Standards of Living (Impoverished, Rich, etc.) all have the libra amount that must be spent to maintain the lifestyle. Does this mean this much money must actually be spent by the player each year, or is it just to give the player an idea of how rich he/she is? Do you earn extra annual income if you are a Rich or Superlative knight?


The libra amounts are the amount neccessary to maintain that lifestyle. You don't spend ?6 on upkeep because you're an average knight. You're an average knight because you spend ?6 libra on your upkeep.

To phrase that differently, the level of money you spend on maintaining the lifestyle of your knight determines how others see him. So if you're spending ?6 people see him as an average knight, but if you spend ?4 people will see him as a poor knight. How you are viewed is determined by how you spend your money.

In a modern setting two people can earn $175,000 year. One spends the money on a mortgage for a large house, buys an expensive car, and spends other income on clothing, jewelry, and other things that people notice .If anyone sees him they know he has to be rich because he has things only a rich person can afford.

The second person lives in a small apartment, drives an old car but doesn't have to make a monthly payment and wears clothing that is less fancy. Any one seeing him won't realize he's rich because the things he has can be affording by even the poor.

At the end of the year the first person has $0 left over because the money has all been spend on lifestyle (conspicuous consumption). The second person has $140,000 left over because he lives a much less expensive lifestyle. However, the one with no left over cash can probably do things his thrifty coworker cannot. For example the first fellow applies for a country club membership. He walks in in a $3,000 Italian suit and wears $500 shoes. His car is parked outside and it's a new Mercedes. The country club decides he's the sort of person they're looking for and they let him in. The second fellow pulls up in a 10-year old Toyota, wears a polo shirt and khakis he got at Target. The country club folks are going to think he's not their sort even though he has more money in the bank. The first fellow may have no money in the bank, but he does have connections at his new country club.




I guess my big question is: How do you handle annual income in your campaigns?



I hope that's a start.

Oh, one other thing. I see you're new so welcome to the boards and welcome to Pendragon one of the best games (in setting and in system) around.

So in short, there is no annual income that is physically given to the player knights? All money knights earn must come from raiding enemy land, ransoming prisoners, etc?

Oh and one other thing: thanks! ;D I've played a few game systems in the past. Pendragon is by far the most appealing to me. I look forward to using this forum extensively to help get used to the game.

Hi Kev,

In the basic rules your manor will usually bring in 6L which comes in and goes out (much like my salary :'( ) and that will maintain the knight at an average lifestyle. So you get shirts, armour fixed, new horses and everyone gets fed etc.

You can gain additional money by getting new manors (through marriage or rewards), loot (battles, raiding) or gifts (this is usually items rather than cash). The more you spend over the 6l the better the lifestyle, also you get a bonus to child survival and birth and your Mrs likes you better cause she has a nicer dress.

In the Book of Manor things are more flexible your income varies and you roll to see how good the harvest has been, you can also build investments that can increase your income.

Also bear in mind with most things though it says 6L this will mainly be in crops, animals, pelts etc, same for loot it will usually be items not coinage.

Hope this helps,

BigSteveUK

P.S The people on here are well helpful so ask away.

Confession time... although I own the Book of the Manor and the GPC we've ended up abandoning worrying about the money side of things. We only have short gaming sessions every few weeks, and so have opted to maximse the gaming fun. I just tell them how well they're doing as fits the current storyline. One day I'd love to be in a group with the time to do everything, but I'm not there yet!

One thing you may want to consider:-

We too found we that the Book of Manor took a fair bit of time each year.

So I go them to email me with 5 years of rolls and did it for them.

Then each year in the winter period I give them an annual report from their steward.

Seem's to be working really well and then they just have to decide what they want to build the following year, to upgrade their std of living and deal with any threats from the events.

I gives you more work though.

Actually, it only takes 4 libra to keep an unmarried Knight at a wealth level of ordinary. The book says 2 of the 6 libra is for his wife and her needs, you generally have a couple libra left over to play with given the knight has a single average Manor.
But playing the Book of Manor rules, you'll generally want to pay a Steward 1 libra to mantain your lands as you go off questing for the summer, or else you automatically fail your stewardship[ role and generally earn less than the 6 average income from a manor.

So in short, there is no annual income that is physically given to the player knights? All money knights earn must come from raiding enemy land, ransoming prisoners, etc?

Knights have an income - it's ?4 if they are household knights (kept by their lord) or ?6 if they are vassal knights (keep themselves). Much of it comes in kind rather than cash (although as members of the quality, they will handle more cash than most in their everyday lives) and, conveniently, it's enough to maintain them as a typical (ie modal) member of their class. It doesn't get given to them as a big bag of coin every Michaelmas, no, and most years income = outgoings which means you really don't have to worry about money.

Treasure is non-routine income and generally comes from raids, ransom, loot etc. This is the stuff that they sock away in a secure chest under their bed and use to buy a fancy horse or to live as a rich knight for a year or three (or replace losses if things go badly on campaign etc).

My general approach is to ignore money most of the time. Just assume that they are living pretty large (my rule of thumb is one librum = ?20k in today's money) but that this is routine for knights and can be covered out of their on hand resources.

Regards
Luke

All helpful comments so far! Thanks!