View Full Version : Improvement space change
dwarinpt
09-15-2015, 12:19 AM
As of the latest BoE update, some improvements occupy space. Before that, one of my players spent money on an Orchard, Mellisarium, Vineyard, and Sheep Herd. According to the new rules, all but one take £2 of income, reducing his manor to a paltry £4 manor. Now, I don't want to penalize a player for a later rules change but I also don't want to retcon events. Things happened, now we must adapt.
1) What could I do to ease the PK's life?
2) If he had two other manors, is it viable to leave his caput major as a £4 manor taking income from the remaining two?
3) Could he conquer the land between manors (assuming they are in close proximity) and make it the equivalent of an estate for improvement purposes (even though it isn't an estate since only a king can create one - this is the Anarchy period)?
Greg Stafford
09-15-2015, 12:32 AM
As of the latest BoE update, some improvements occupy space. Before that, one of my players spent money on an Orchard, Mellisarium, Vineyard, and Sheep Herd. According to the new rules, all but one take £2 of income, reducing his manor to a paltry £4 manor.
But he also gets income from those additions
Now, I don't want to penalize a player for a later rules change but I also don't want to retcon events. Things happened, now we must adapt.
1) What could I do to ease the PK's life?
Tell him he had extra waste on his land where he put the additions
2) If he had two other manors, is it viable to leave his caput major as a £4 manor taking income from the remaining two?
Sure
3) Could he conquer the land between manors (assuming they are in close proximity) and make it the equivalent of an estate for improvement purposes (even though it isn't an estate since only a king can create one - this is the Anarchy period)?
Anarchy? Yes,. absolutely
Just understand (you Mr GM) that after Arthur becomes king one of his big jobs is to search out the rightful heirs to lands tht have been taken during Anarchy, and return them to the proper owner
If this particular knight is known to Arthur and has been a loyal knight, then Arthur may
1. Give the PK land equivalent to the land he conquered, which will be taken away; or
2. let him keep the conquest and give the rightful heir an equivalent value
dwarinpt
09-15-2015, 12:40 AM
Thanks for the prompt answers. From a story standpoint, what would happen to those peasants who plowed the land and now those lands are occupied by new improvements? I assume they will not want to move to other manors since those are already occupied by peasants? Banditry? Going away? Also, if we consider the three manors as one block of land (although not an estate), would the knight be able to move the movable improvements to the other manors (i.e. the sheep herd and the mellisarium)? I think this would simplify things a bit.
Morien
09-15-2015, 12:55 AM
Thanks for the prompt answers. From a story standpoint, what would happen to those peasants who plowed the land and now those lands are occupied by new improvements? I assume they will not want to move to other manors since those are already occupied by peasants? Banditry? Going away? Also, if we consider the three manors as one block of land (although not an estate), would the knight be able to move the movable improvements to the other manors (i.e. the sheep herd and the mellisarium)? I think this would simplify things a bit.
All depends how easy you wish to make things for the PK. I agree that it is unfair to punish the PK for building something that would no longer be applicable. However, there are ways to deal with this:
A) Like Greg said, just rule that THIS particular manor had extra space (waste) enough for THOSE particular improvements. Problem solved. Alternatively, those wastes were added to the manor by the liege lord, when the PK was asking if he could have that piece of land over there that no one was doing anything with... Basically retconning some space additions to the manor. Same end result.
B) Treat the three manors as an estate, i.e. they have three spaces instead of one space. You are still one space over, but it is easier to handwave one space away as in option A, rather than three. This would be my preference, if the manors are in relatively close proximity. Just agree that this Vineyard is actually in this manor's lands, and this Orchaid is over here... in case it comes up. The Book of the Estate's rule that you should only build on your Caput Major is more intended to keep you from building to your outliers (which do not appear in BotE, but show up in BotW). And even then, the argument is more that it is easier to protect them when they are right there where you usually live, than all the way to hell and back. Three manors within a few miles from each other, not a problem.
Greg Stafford
09-15-2015, 01:02 AM
Thanks for the prompt answers.
Don't thank me
You wrote them at exactly the right time!!
From a story standpoint, what would happen to those peasants who plowed the land and now those lands are occupied by new improvements?
It would depend on whether they were serfs, villains, or free men
I have been hesitant to introduce those changes to anything since I already feel there is too much to deal with in landowning
and since the percentage of these would vary from county to county
I assume they will not want to move to other manors since those are already occupied by peasants?
If they were serfs, then they don't have any choice
they are the property of their lord
villains are free men, but bound to the land, so they would have to stay
Free men, aka yeomen, would have the choice to do whatever they want
and would likely be able to find someplace that appreciates their skills (of course, the new lord may make them swear allegiance and then they'd lose their free status...)
Banditry?
Very possible, even for runaway serfs
Going away?
See above
Also, if we consider the three manors as one block of land (although not an estate), would the knight be able to move the movable improvements to the other manors (i.e. the sheep herd and the mellisarium)? I think this would simplify things a bit.
Ordinarily the rule is to build these on your caput major
but especially considering that this all came about because of rule changes, I would say
unequivocally
yes
or, as I said before, just leave them be and just make them on former wasteland cleared for the purpose
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