So I have started playing a face-to-face game of 5th edition and GPC with Books of Warlord, Uther and Estate (no Book of Battle for now), to hash out the rules for my pBp I have upcoming. This is a bit of a departure for me, as I have previously played 1st and 3rd editions. I have a situation that I would love clarification on

Using the 5th edition battle rules, in the Battle of Mearcred Creek, in the third round of battle, the players' unit leader criticalled his Battle roll. They looked for a special event and rolled a 20, so they got the enemy battalion leader. I had the players each attack a berserker, and two died, but two defeated their foe. I ruled that their unit leader defeated the battalion leader (made a Follower's Fate roll and succeeded). This is all background for the Winter Phase

One of the two survivors wanted a wife at same station, and made the Courtesy roll, and I decided that there were quite a few knights killed at the battle (I had Ulfius on the right in the Vanguard, and Count Roderick and his troops in the centre as Duke Gorlois did not show, taking the brunt of the damage), and that this knight had been seen to be heroic in the battle, so I granted him a wife with 1 manor and 1d6L dowry (I know, I am a softy).

These are the assumptions I made, and could use correcting on:
- I assume that this is an enfoeffed manor
- I assume the knight previously supplied was a knight killed in battle, or the warder of the daughter
- I assume the player knight now has to appoint somebody as the knight supplied by this manor
- This would make the knight a holder of two manors, which is an estate of 20L, but he still only gets 1L discretionary income because the income from the other manor goes entirely to the vavasour.
- If the knight has sons with this wife, they would inherit the dowry manor on their father's death
- what happens if the wife dies without any children; does it go back to the wife's side of teh family?

so I granted him a wife with 1 manor and 1d6L dowry (I know, I am a softy).


Yes, yes you are. :P



These are the assumptions I made, and could use correcting on:
- I assume that this is an enfoeffed manor
- I assume the knight previously supplied was a knight killed in battle, or the warder of the daughter
- I assume the player knight now has to appoint somebody as the knight supplied by this manor
- This would make the knight a holder of two manors, which is an estate of 20L, but he still only gets 1L discretionary income because the income from the other manor goes entirely to the vavasour.
- If the knight has sons with this wife, they would inherit the dowry manor on their father's death
- what happens if the wife dies without any children; does it go back to the wife's side of teh family?

Enfeoffed/Demesne is a matter of perspective. As far as the count is concerned, yes (it belongs to his vassal). As far as the PK is concerned, no (it is a demesne holding). The reason for this is simple: it makes little sense for an heiress to only inherit a manor that belongs to another vassal knight, since this would mean that her family doesn't actually have a manor of their own to support them! (I can see that happening in a very strange co-heiress case with executive meddling from the liege lord, but that is probably not the case here.) So, the previous vassal knight of that manor should have been, as you correctly assume, the heiress' family member or her warden.

Demesne manor doesn't mean that it is free from servitium debitum. It simply means that the PK controls it directly and hence appoints a HOUSEHOLD knight, rather than a vassal knight (he could subenfeoff a Vassal Knight, but that would be pretty stupid of him at this stage). This means that his holdings (not an estate, which is a legal term in the landholding terminology in BotE) is £20, and his discretionary funds are £2. (You would be correct in the case if he had subenfeoffed the other manor, although in that case, the situation is in all other respects equal to having a £10 manor, but with some extra glory for landholding (based on the total value of the holdings, vassals included) and the army (extra knight and 3 foot soldiers).)

ANY children of the woman will inherit the manor, they don't need to be sons. However, girls will split the inherited lands between them. Also, they need to be the children of the HEIRESS. Given that this is probably close to your campaign start, the PK is less likely to have previous children, but if he did, they would only count towards inheriting HIS manor, not HERS. Thus, for inheritance purposes, you'll have to look at each 'bloodline' separately.

Example 1: Lets assume he has two sons from a previous marriage, and then gets a girl from this heiress wife. The eldest son would inherit the father's manor in totality (since eldest son inherits all) but he would have no claim to the heiress manor, which would go totally to the girl (only child of the heiress).

Example 2: Lets assume he has two daughters from a previous marriage, and then gets a son and a daughter from the heiress wife. The only son would inherit both manors (eldest son of both his father and his mother).

Example 3: Lets assume he has two daughters from a previous marriage, and then gets a daughter from the heiress wife. This means that his original manor is split threeways (since HE has 3 daughters), but the heiress manor would go to that youngest daughter (the only child of the wife), so she would inherit 1.33 manors, while her two half-sisters would inherit only 0.33 manors each.

Exceptions may happen in some cases, but the above is how it should go. If there are no children of the heiress, the manor would either revert back to the liege lord (the Count) or another heir of HER bloodline (a cousin/uncle/aunt of hers, since clearly she had no siblings). It is a bit debatable if this happens right after her death, or if the widower husband keeps control of the estate until he dies (or maybe remarries?). In our campaign, he loses control as soon as the wife dies (if there are no children), but in your campaign it may depend on the liege lord and the petitioning would-be-heirs. If the manor would be reverting back to the liege lord, there is nothing to prevent him from giving it as a gift to the widower husband if he chooses to do so, although he would be unlikely to give it as a grant. This would probably depend a lot on how many heroics the PK has done more to deserve such consideration.

Here is a link to an older discussion about how the inheritance works: http://nocturnalmediaforum.com/iecarus/forum/showthread.php?2257-Inheritance-Law-Primogeniture-in-a-Polygamous-Relationship&p=19012&viewfull=1#post19012

Thank you, that is crystal clear