Morien
12-03-2015, 07:11 PM
(This discussion started in this thread: http://nocturnalmediaforum.com/iecarus/forum/showthread.php?2571-What-economic-system-do-you-prefer-Which-one-is-now-quot-canon-quot&p=22399&viewfull=1#post22399 )
BotW, p. 51, Treasure -box says:
"Treasure in King Arthur Pendragon is anything portable that’s valuable to a nobleman except
food, armor and weapons (collectively, armaments), and horses. It includes coins, statuary,
jewelry of every description, dinnerware, tapestries, furniture (don’t forget a buffet to show off
the plate!). NOTE: Displayed treasure no longer earns Glory. See Appendix J., p. 187 for more.
No banks exist, and saving is impossible when wealth is mostly perishable food. To keep profits
(Discretionary Fund), a baron must sell the food to a licensed merchant who will transport it to
some urban center for resale. The merchant pays one half of the market value, and his payment
is in whatever form of Treasure the baron desires."
As per BotW, p. 51, pretty much everything non-food, transportable items counts as Treasure. However, not all Treasure is equal. In KAP 5.1, the rule of thumb for selling stuff to the merchants is that they pay 50% of the value. So, in this particular case, if I transformed my £4 render into a new shiny £2 chainmail, but then found out a couple of years later that I actually need something else instead, I would only get £1 for that chainmail. But if I had transformed that £4 into £2 silver ingots (or actual coinage), then I would still have, £2 in usable currency, even if it would not be actual coinage.
It is this dichotomy that bothers me. Where is the point where the treasure's resale value is its full value (like coinage), rather than 50% of its value (like armor, horses)? Granted, you get some use out of that armor and horses, but especially in the case of the latter, you also incur the risk of it dying (or being damaged/destroyed, in the case of the armor, especially if you use armor damage house rules). What about tapestries and so forth?
I'd be tempted to adopt this kind of a ruling:
Food: Universal currency (everyone needs food), but spoils.
Precious metals (coins or hack silver or ingots): Universal currency and doesn't spoil. Hence, merchants only pay 50% of the items (food or otherwise) in coin/silver/gold.
Other items (includes jewelry, since the work part is not 'accepted' currency unless you really want the craftmanship): Barter currency, often valued at 50%, unless you find someone who really needs it (like a knight trying to buy a new armor or a horse).
Under this system, if I have £10 render, I am able to use that to get a new partial plate or a charger (in Romance era) no problem, since the armorer & the horse trader need food, too. I do take an effective 50% cut here, since if I'll try to resell the armor or the horse, I am only getting £5 in coinage or in other value of items, unless I find someone who explicitly wants one and is willing to pay more (not usually the case, especially if you need that £5 NOW). Also, it might even be impossible to get that much; if you are in a small village, there is no one who has that kind of money. However, I can also sell that £10 render to a food merchant, who pays £5 in coin/precious metals, which is easy to transport and acceptable everywhere.
You do have a small advantage in transforming the food into usable items (armor, horse), but you also take a risk: horse might die, you might not even get the full 50% resale value especially if you are in a hurry. Also, tapestries and such are cumbersome. Your best bet is actually investing in jewelry, which can be worn and which is light and the precious metals in them are worth their weight in gold/silver. Which is something I don't mind seeing. Again, with jewelry, the downside is that if you have a £1 gold ring, and the ferry or whatever costs £0.25, don't expect to get any money back: the 'here's my Rolex for your dinky scooter' -option of modern action films. With coinage, it is easier to use, and just as easy to transport.
So, to summarize:
Food: everyone needs it, but spoils, so it needs to used up/sold fast. Can't be stored (for over a year, at least; presumably people would store the harvest to eat during the following year until the next harvest; which often were 2-3 per year depending on the crops, even though the autumn harvest was the big one).
Coinage/Precious metals: accepted universal currency of sorts, easy to transport and use or hide.
Jewelry: Maximise your Bling. Easy to transport, makes you look like a Boss, and in a pinch, reducible to its component precious metals (50% value). Silver/gold plate is a very acceptable option for a more house bling (mentioned here since it acts more like jewelry in transport & resale).
Weapons, Armor, Horse: Usable tools of the trade. You get some use out of them at the same time, but they might be damaged/destroyed, and it might not be that easy to get their 50% value out in a hurry.
Tapestries, furniture: Makes everyday life more pleasant, maximises the Bling of your home to impress your friends and enemies. Bitch to transport and sell. I might be tempted to give some conspicuous consumption Glory for these, like that 'lost' 50% value in Glory. So £10 spent to furniture -> 5 Glory (one-time award, not per year).
EDIT:
Of course, you can also spend that Discretionary Funds to entourage, either professionals or soldiers. In one of our campaigns, the five PKs are pooling their resources to hire an excellent physician (First Aid 20, Physician 16), and especially the First Aid part has come very handy in keeping them alive during their adventures. Extra squires are only £1 per squire, too, or a couple of foot soldiers to help to defend the manor against Saxon raids...
BotW, p. 51, Treasure -box says:
"Treasure in King Arthur Pendragon is anything portable that’s valuable to a nobleman except
food, armor and weapons (collectively, armaments), and horses. It includes coins, statuary,
jewelry of every description, dinnerware, tapestries, furniture (don’t forget a buffet to show off
the plate!). NOTE: Displayed treasure no longer earns Glory. See Appendix J., p. 187 for more.
No banks exist, and saving is impossible when wealth is mostly perishable food. To keep profits
(Discretionary Fund), a baron must sell the food to a licensed merchant who will transport it to
some urban center for resale. The merchant pays one half of the market value, and his payment
is in whatever form of Treasure the baron desires."
As per BotW, p. 51, pretty much everything non-food, transportable items counts as Treasure. However, not all Treasure is equal. In KAP 5.1, the rule of thumb for selling stuff to the merchants is that they pay 50% of the value. So, in this particular case, if I transformed my £4 render into a new shiny £2 chainmail, but then found out a couple of years later that I actually need something else instead, I would only get £1 for that chainmail. But if I had transformed that £4 into £2 silver ingots (or actual coinage), then I would still have, £2 in usable currency, even if it would not be actual coinage.
It is this dichotomy that bothers me. Where is the point where the treasure's resale value is its full value (like coinage), rather than 50% of its value (like armor, horses)? Granted, you get some use out of that armor and horses, but especially in the case of the latter, you also incur the risk of it dying (or being damaged/destroyed, in the case of the armor, especially if you use armor damage house rules). What about tapestries and so forth?
I'd be tempted to adopt this kind of a ruling:
Food: Universal currency (everyone needs food), but spoils.
Precious metals (coins or hack silver or ingots): Universal currency and doesn't spoil. Hence, merchants only pay 50% of the items (food or otherwise) in coin/silver/gold.
Other items (includes jewelry, since the work part is not 'accepted' currency unless you really want the craftmanship): Barter currency, often valued at 50%, unless you find someone who really needs it (like a knight trying to buy a new armor or a horse).
Under this system, if I have £10 render, I am able to use that to get a new partial plate or a charger (in Romance era) no problem, since the armorer & the horse trader need food, too. I do take an effective 50% cut here, since if I'll try to resell the armor or the horse, I am only getting £5 in coinage or in other value of items, unless I find someone who explicitly wants one and is willing to pay more (not usually the case, especially if you need that £5 NOW). Also, it might even be impossible to get that much; if you are in a small village, there is no one who has that kind of money. However, I can also sell that £10 render to a food merchant, who pays £5 in coin/precious metals, which is easy to transport and acceptable everywhere.
You do have a small advantage in transforming the food into usable items (armor, horse), but you also take a risk: horse might die, you might not even get the full 50% resale value especially if you are in a hurry. Also, tapestries and such are cumbersome. Your best bet is actually investing in jewelry, which can be worn and which is light and the precious metals in them are worth their weight in gold/silver. Which is something I don't mind seeing. Again, with jewelry, the downside is that if you have a £1 gold ring, and the ferry or whatever costs £0.25, don't expect to get any money back: the 'here's my Rolex for your dinky scooter' -option of modern action films. With coinage, it is easier to use, and just as easy to transport.
So, to summarize:
Food: everyone needs it, but spoils, so it needs to used up/sold fast. Can't be stored (for over a year, at least; presumably people would store the harvest to eat during the following year until the next harvest; which often were 2-3 per year depending on the crops, even though the autumn harvest was the big one).
Coinage/Precious metals: accepted universal currency of sorts, easy to transport and use or hide.
Jewelry: Maximise your Bling. Easy to transport, makes you look like a Boss, and in a pinch, reducible to its component precious metals (50% value). Silver/gold plate is a very acceptable option for a more house bling (mentioned here since it acts more like jewelry in transport & resale).
Weapons, Armor, Horse: Usable tools of the trade. You get some use out of them at the same time, but they might be damaged/destroyed, and it might not be that easy to get their 50% value out in a hurry.
Tapestries, furniture: Makes everyday life more pleasant, maximises the Bling of your home to impress your friends and enemies. Bitch to transport and sell. I might be tempted to give some conspicuous consumption Glory for these, like that 'lost' 50% value in Glory. So £10 spent to furniture -> 5 Glory (one-time award, not per year).
EDIT:
Of course, you can also spend that Discretionary Funds to entourage, either professionals or soldiers. In one of our campaigns, the five PKs are pooling their resources to hire an excellent physician (First Aid 20, Physician 16), and especially the First Aid part has come very handy in keeping them alive during their adventures. Extra squires are only £1 per squire, too, or a couple of foot soldiers to help to defend the manor against Saxon raids...