The year: 506 AD. A powerful knight (the player-character's antagonist) is now in a good position to marry Lady Ellen. Short of killing her son, Robert, how could he grab the county for him and keep Robert from inheriting everything? Salisbury is also about to pay homage to Nanteleod. Would the new king have the power to remove Robert (before he even inherits anything) and put a knight whom he trusts in power, forcing Lady Ellen to marry the knight?

The Knight could try conquering it before Salisbury swears homage to Nanteleod.

Nanteleod could refuse to accept Salisbury's homage with the current dynasty in power, and demand that the countess has to marry Knight X. Given that Ellen by this time is around 40, it is unlikely that she will bear any children. Note that in this case, there is actually no particular need to marry Ellen: she is not the heiress of Salisbury even if her children by Roderick were to die. She has her own lands, true, but not the whole of Salisbury. See below for more.

Once Ellen & Robert become Nanteleod's vassals, that is it. He is honor-bound to protect them. Disinheriting Robert at that point would be a move that breaks the liege-vassal bond at its core, and would make other vassals wonder, if this is a liege that they can trust. After all, if it happens to Robert, it could happen to any of them, right? However, as the liege, Nanteleod would be within his rights to marry Ellen off to Knight X, and put Knight X in power until Robert inherits (more of this below).

There are a couple of ways Nanteleod might be able to cheat Robert out of his inheritance, though:
1) Cast doubt on Robert's parentage. If Robert is a bastard and not the Count's son, Jenna would inherit. Furthermore, Jenna at this point would be in her early twenties, and would probably give heirs. A much better option for a new dynasty than Ellen, who would not be inheriting Salisbury (just a part of it, her own inherited lands) even if Jenna were to die.
2) Make sure that Robert will never afford to pay for the relief. No relief, no inheritance. He is still the heir, but Nanteleod can hang onto the lands until the relief is paid, and keep his knight, the new husband of Ellen, in power as his representative. However, if a sympathetic nobleman (wants Robert as an ally or simply dislikes these shady maneuvers) gives Robert the money, Robert would inherit.

Finally, Ellen is entitled to a widow's portion, 1/3rd of the lands, and her own inherited lands. So the new husband would keep those lands as long as she stays alive, even if Robert inherits the rest. 1/3rd of Salisbury is nothing to sneeze at.

The Knight could try conquering it before Salisbury swears homage to Nanteleod.

Yes, he could do that. He already has most of the Salisbury knights on his side. Not all agree that a woman should lead the destinies of knights. Problem is, Sir Alan of Gloomvale (the NPC knight) is a politically savvy manipulator. He is not a bad knight. He is just ambitious. So, he managed to earn the title and position of Marshall of Salisbury after Sir Elad's death. He has a lot of properties and money to back up a small army and he wants to be earl.


Finally, Ellen is entitled to a widow's portion, 1/3rd of the lands, and her own inherited lands. So the new husband would keep those lands as long as she stays alive, even if Robert inherits the rest. 1/3rd of Salisbury is nothing to sneeze at.

Except Sir Alan wants it all. This makes for a much better antagonist in my campaign. We're almost finishing the Anarchy period (3 more years) and Sir Alan has been slowly consolidating his position (a story arc that started in 496 AD). It would be nice to ramp up things to a nice climax before Arthur makes his big entrance. It also makes for a much more compelling story if, for instance, Salisbury sides with Sir Alain de Carlion (the next king of Escalavon) who will not recognize Arthur as the high king of Britain. Will the PK side with their new lord or with Arthur?

Yes, he could do that. He already has most of the Salisbury knights on his side. Not all agree that a woman should lead the destinies of knights.

Your Pendragon May Vary and all that, but... He has most of the knights on his side? Including the household knights? They are sworn to him rather than to the Countess and/or Robert? Or are you simply talking about the vassal knights (influential, yes, but just 20% or so of the lot if the push comes to shove), although even them should have been sworn to whoever is the regent at the end of 495, IMHO.

Also, whether or not a woman should rule is not the point here. He is trying to disinherit the rightful heir, whose bloodline has held the title of the Count of Salisbury since time immemorial. And who also happens to be the rightful liege of this Sir Alan of Gloomvale. So you have a knight plotting against his liege and trying to overturn one of the most hallowed rights that a landed knight has: the right of inheritance.

Now, it is the Anarchy, and perhaps in your campaign, the household knights are sworn to the Marshal instead (thanks to some plotting in 495-6), and Sir Alan is not sworn to anyone since he feels that a woman and a child would not be proper lieges and he managed to make that stick in 495-6. So that gets rid of the Loyalty & Honor angles. As for the inheritance, if his powerbase rests mainly on the household knights, then what the vassal knights think is less important. He can crush them if he needs to.



Except Sir Alan wants it all. This makes for a much better antagonist in my campaign. We're almost finishing the Anarchy period (3 more years) and Sir Alan has been slowly consolidating his position (a story arc that started in 496 AD).


Tough for him, if everyone is bound by oaths of loyalty already to Ellen & Robert. Double tough if he is bound likewise. Big Honor penalties await. His best bet, IMHO, would be to simply organize a coup. Sounds like that he has already most of the knights signed on, so time to up the ante. You can have loyallists (maybe even the PKs) spirit Robert (and maybe even Ellen) away somewhere (Silchester comes to mind), if you want them to survive. Sir Alan's best play for a veneer of respectability would be to marry Jenna (if she is still around) and claim that Robert is a bastard. This allows him to legitimately become the Count by the right of his wife (jure uxoris). Even if everyone can see through the ploy, it covers the dastardly deed with a figleaf of legal sophistry and allows everyone to pretend that justice has been done. Heck, at that point you can even keep Robert and Ellen imprisoned, after Sir Alan offers Ellen a choice: confess to adultery and Robert lives, or do not, and Robert has an accident. This allows you (as the GM) to keep Robert and Ellen alive until they can be rescued/reinstated by Arthur. Or not, if Ellen happens to die before she can recant her confession...

What would be amazingly stupid from Sir Alan would be to let Ellen and Robert submit to Nanteleod and thus cause the king to be honorbound to protect them and their rights. Better simply present the king with a fait accompli, offering your own submission to him in return for him ratifying your title. Sounds like that is what Nanteleod has been doing elsewhere, too, and it would not be worth Nanteleod's time and effort to oust Sir Alan if he already has the backing of the local knights. Easier to just accept it and move on, but not if there is Honor & Principle at stake, one of the main pillars on which the liege-vassal bond rests.



...if, for instance, Salisbury sides with Sir Alain de Carlion (the next king of Escalavon) who will not recognize Arthur as the high king of Britain. Will the PK side with their new lord or with Arthur?

Except King Alain of Escavalon is one of the Eager Vassals and even gives the town of Carlion to Arthur. In default GPC, that is. Feel free to change it for your campaign, of course. I just felt the need to point that out: you'll have to modify the description of the early battle of Carlion 510 a bit, since it has the citizenry of Carlion attack Arthur's enemies and stuff like that.

Your Pendragon May Vary and all that,

Quite right.


He has most of the knights on his side? Including the household knights? They are sworn to him rather than to the Countess and/or Robert? Or are you simply talking about the vassal knights (influential, yes, but just 20% or so of the lot if the push comes to shove), although even them should have been sworn to whoever is the regent at the end of 495, IMHO.

Household knights are sworn to Lady Ellen but, in this period, lots of mercenary knights abound, everyone wants to grab land, betrayal is everywhere. Going with the rulebook, Lady Ellen has 75 household knights sword to her. That means in battle Sir Alan of Gloomvale will be outnumbered. Not a first in the campaign.


Also, whether or not a woman should rule is not the point here.

That's exactly the point because Sir Lycus was not too keen on swearing allegiance to a woman (GPC, p. 65). Who knows what was promised so a new earl sits on the throne.


He is trying to disinherit the rightful heir, whose bloodline has held the title of the Count of Salisbury since time immemorial. And who also happens to be the rightful liege of this Sir Alan of Gloomvale. So you have a knight plotting against his liege and trying to overturn one of the most hallowed rights that a landed knight has: the right of inheritance.

Which goes out the window if something happens to Robert. That's why I asked "Short of killing Robert..."


Tough for him, if everyone is bound by oaths of loyalty already to Ellen & Robert. Double tough if he is bound likewise. Big Honor penalties await.

Honor can always be recovered. Even then, no one said a ruler would be honorable. After all, this isn't the age of Chivalry.


His best bet, IMHO, would be to simply organize a coup. Sounds like that he has already most of the knights signed on, so time to up the ante. You can have loyallists (maybe even the PKs) spirit Robert (and maybe even Ellen) away somewhere (Silchester comes to mind), if you want them to survive. Sir Alan's best play for a veneer of respectability would be to marry Jenna (if she is still around) and claim that Robert is a bastard.

In my campaign, Lady Jenna is married to someone else.


What would be amazingly stupid from Sir Alan would be to let Ellen and Robert submit to Nanteleod and thus cause the king to be honorbound to protect them and their rights.

That's why he has to act now. Robert is almost earl (even though no one knows he will be made earl in 509 AD).


Except King Alain of Escavalon is one of the Eager Vassals and even gives the town of Carlion to Arthur. In default GPC, that is. Feel free to change it for your campaign, of course. I just felt the need to point that out: you'll have to modify the description of the early battle of Carlion 510 a bit, since it has the citizenry of Carlion attack Arthur's enemies and stuff like that.

Things change. Sir Alan's efforts will be all for naught and like all good villains he will die in the field of battle against a PK. As I said, whatever makes a good story.

That's exactly the point because Sir Lycus was not too keen on swearing allegiance to a woman (GPC, p. 65). Who knows what was promised so a new earl sits on the throne.


But did Sir Lycus swear? Is he dishonorable as well? Also, 'not too keen on swearing allegiance to a woman' is a lot different to 'disinheriting or killing your previous liege's son and rightful heir'. It is the latter that Sir Alan seems to be gunning for, not just replacing the Regency.



Which goes out the window if something happens to Robert. That's why I asked "Short of killing Robert..."


Yes, which means disinheriting Robert somehow. But since Jenna is married in your campaign, she (and through her, her husband) would inherit after Robert, even if Robert dies or is disinherited. So the big question would be to ask, how does Jenna's husband take this? Does he have the power to take Salisbury back or to influence Nanteleod? What is Sir Alan's plan for them?

And what does Sir Alan actually hope to gain from a marriage to Ellen, if he is going to usurp both Robert and Jenna anyway? She doesn't add to his legitimacy at that point anymore.



Honor can always be recovered. Even then, no one said a ruler would be honorable. After all, this isn't the age of Chivalry.


A man's word is a man's word still. If you are a backstabbing traitor who doesn't honor his vows, people won't trust you. I am sure that Sir Alan would have no trouble getting fellow opportunists to his side, and mercenaries and such, but this would no doubt bite him in the buttocks sooner or later. As I see you have already planned.

A knight who goes from Honor 15 to Honor 10 for betraying his liege will be treated much differently in my game from a knight who starts with Honor 10 and stays true to his liege, even if the resulting numerical value is the same.

I would think that this Sir Alan would have essentially three options:

1. Get Rid of Ellen
This is the easiest option, I think. Basically, demonstrate that Ellen is a bad leader, and she can potentially be replaced as regent. Sir Alan, being the marshal, is in a great position to be the next choice. This is probably easiest because you can sell it to the county as "You're not really betraying anybody. You're really doing what's best for Robert - if we leave this disaster of a regent in charge, there will be nothing left for him to inherit!"

Once you're regent, well, heirs are clumsy people. They fall down flights of stairs or out of windows all the time. Or send Jenna's husband on dangerous missions until he bites it, marry her, then claim she's the heir by way of strict seniority. Not strictly right, but if people like you (and you've got time to get them on your side in this plan), they might go along with it.

2. Conquest
If you have the military advantage, you can just overthrow Ellen and company. If you're really treacherous, you could probably use your position as marshal to screw up the defense. This is the hardest option, because the odds are that lots of knights will side with Ellen, especially if you don't have some sort of spurious claim yourself. On the other hand, this is the Anarchy Period, when robber knights and such are supposed to be taking over, so maybe it will work. Be sure to capture both Robert and Jenna, though, or they'll be off gathering allies to retake the county.

3. Allies
This one requires a claim, no matter how spurious. Something like "I have this clearly authentic documented proving that Roderick's father was a bastard. That means that my grandmother was the rightful heir, and therefore, I should be Earl." Then you go cut a deal with Cerdic or someone. That person marches into Salisbury, supported by you. "Do not vorry, my friends, ve are not here to conquer you. I just vant to restore my good buddy Sir Alan to his rightful position." And if you have enough support in Salisbury, this all works out.

I go with whatever is most entertaining for the campaign and my players and won't stray too much from the genre. The GPC implies that one can overthrown a lord (i.e. countess of Rydychan) and nothing untoward happens as long as you have the military clout to back it up. Of course, young Robert will certainly try to take back what is rightfully his and this will make for a great storyline with lots of battles and heroic deeds.


This is probably easiest because you can sell it to the county as "You're not really betraying anybody. You're really doing what's best for Robert - if we leave this disaster of a regent in charge, there will be nothing left for him to inherit!"

I hadn't considered this. The players would fume if somehow Sir Alan, being a savvy and shrewd man, would persuade Robert, still a squire but already learning the big politics, that he would make a better regent. Robert has no say in the matter, but having his moral support can make such a claim more palatable.

One other alternative storyline sees Sir Alan marrying Lady Ellen and receiving a wealthy dowry and becoming the single most powerful knight in Salisbury. At this point I don't have any clue what may come out of this, but I'm sure future years will bring an answer.

In either case, men are prone to do stupid things and Sir Alain may act recklessly in a bid to power and try something desperate or foolish which may spell his downfall.