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Mr.47
04-09-2016, 12:54 PM
Is this a thing in Pendragon? I know such an arrangement existed, whereby anywhere from half to a fortieth of a knights fee could be held in vassalage by someone, usually a house knight or a yeoman, which was payed for with a corresponding fraction of the Servitum Debitum. So for example since the Standard SD is 5.5, a half fief knight would simply pay his lord 2.75L or supply him that amount's worth of soldiers. Or simply be retained as a house knight, with the value of the land deducted from the stipend maybe? I'm a little fuzzy on how exactly it works, but certainly Domesday makes reference to half-fees and a novel I'm reading at the moment has a character serving as a knight with less than a whole fief. Not sure if this exists in Pendragon.

Greg Stafford
04-09-2016, 04:42 PM
Yes, it does
although not stated explicitly
Book of Estate or Warlords makes room for fractional holdings

Mr.47
04-10-2016, 12:19 AM
So could someone run me through the way a knight with a half fief might live?

oaktree
04-10-2016, 03:34 AM
So could someone run me through the way a knight with a half fief might live?

Very frugally?

Or he would be very dependent on other sources of income; borrowing from relatives, gifts from lords, tournaments (if in a late enough period), raiding/looting enemies, or possibly being a robber knight on the sly. And maybe possibly eventually getting something in place that improves the value of the fief; an improvement, being granted some sort of toll or other right, etc.

Greg Stafford
04-10-2016, 05:54 AM
Very frugally?

Or he would be very dependent on other sources of income; borrowing from relatives, gifts from lords, tournaments (if in a late enough period), raiding/looting enemies, or possibly being a robber knight on the sly. And maybe possibly eventually getting something in place that improves the value of the fief; an improvement, being granted some sort of toll or other right, etc.

I agree with Oaktree--a knight would need another source of income.
But mostly, a knight simply could not live on half of a manor.
It would be held by someone else--a esquire or a messenger, or as an adjunct to a full manor.

Mr.47
04-10-2016, 05:03 PM
Would it be conceivable to be a house knight, those four pounds upkeep supplied by his lord directly in return for serving in his household nearly year round, while at the same time possessing a 5L estate which he pays a fixed rent for or supplies a spear man or two, The render of which he uses to provide for a family?

Morien
04-11-2016, 08:14 AM
Would it be conceivable to be a house knight, those four pounds upkeep supplied by his lord directly in return for serving in his household nearly year round, while at the same time possessing a 5L estate which he pays a fixed rent for or supplies a spear man or two, The render of which he uses to provide for a family?

In principle, if the liege wants to do that, why not? However, it would be much easier from the liege's perspective to just retain the wife as a lady-in-waiting for the liege's wife, and pay the extra 1 librum for the children as a bonus for the household knight's distinguished service.

5L estate would have SD of 2.75 librum, which rounds up nicely to 3L = a cavalryman and two foot soldiers. This would leave 2L for the wife and children, but nothing left over for a lady's maid nor the chaplain. Although if the liege is feeling generous, SD of 2.5L would mean a cavalryman and a foot soldier, with 0.5L for a lady's maid. There is also the fact that the render would only be 5L, too, which means that the servant staff would be undermanned, too, in comparison to a full manor.

Like Greg said earlier, those half-fees would be better as additional lands to the main manor, or perhaps a couple of slices that together make up for a full manor (parts of which had been lost to other families via split inheritance between female claimants).