I'm a bit lost. Using the Book of the Estate version 1.3.2, the Fortification section seems to have numbers from all over the place:

From pages 80-81
Ditch and Rampart gives 3 DV at £3 per 1000 feet
Gate, Normal gives -2 DV at £0
Gate, Postern gives -1 DV at £0
Gateworks, simple gives +1 DV to gate at £2
Motte gives 5 DV at £5
Palisade gives 3 DV at £5 per 1000 feet
Tower, wooden gives 2 DV at £15

Okay...
Reinforced Motte is listed as giving you a Ditch and Rampart 3, Palisade 3, Postern Gate -1, and Simple Gateworks +1. It is said to cost £11 and give a DV of 5 (9 with the Motte included).

Unfortunately, when you total up the costs of the Ditch/Rampart, Palisade, Postern Gate, and Gateworks you end up with a cost of £10 and a DV of 6 (10 with the Motte included)

Bailey is listed as Ditch and Rampart 3, Palisade 3, Gate, Normal -2, Simple Gateworks +1. It is said to cost £10 and have a DV of 5 (same as fortified). When you sum this up you get the cost of £10 and a DV of 5.

So the Bailey and Reinforced Motte should cost the same by the book and only differ by 1 in DV (before the Motte is taken into account). What's up with these numbers? They don't seem to make any sense to me.

Also, if you were going to erect a Motte and Bailey castle, do you have to do each of the Works as single Improvements in Winter? So if you wanted to build a Motte and Bailey castle proper you'd have 11 Improvements you'd need to make (4 for the Bailey, 5 for the Reinforced Motte, and two towers). Or am I off?

Any help would be appreciated.

Some of those number are wonky.

Motte and Baily is: 5/11/2.

Defense Value: 5/11/2
Bailey (DV 5): Ditch & rampart (3), Palisade (3), Gate (-2), Gate works (1),
Motte (DV 11c): Motte (4), Ditch (2), Palisade (3), Postern Gate (-1), Gate works (1),
Stronghold DR0 (DV 2): Wooden Tower (2)


You'd think it should be 5/9/2, but the inner tower overlooks the motte and adds its DV to the motte dv (9+2 = 11). Later concentric castles will also have this effect (inner defense rings supporting outer defense rings), but the M&B is the only earlier castle with this effect.

I don't have a copy of Estate handy, but the only difference is Motte should be 4 not 5. Could be a typo.

RE building. You are correct the rule is unclear. I would let you build a motte and bailey in one season. OR perhaps 20% per £10 of lands. So if you had a £50 estate you could build it in one year, but if you only had one £10 manor, it would take several seasons.

RE building. You are correct the rule is unclear. I would let you build a motte and bailey in one season. OR perhaps 20% per £10 of lands. So if you had a £50 estate you could build it in one year, but if you only had one £10 manor, it would take several seasons.

One could use a similar rule as the old Lordly Domains: you can build as much in a year as your Assized Rent.

Thus, the Motte & Bailey castle, with two towers (around £50) would be built in a year by a £50 estate, but take 5 years for a £10 manor.

I'm a bit lost. Using the Book of the Estate version 1.3.2, the Fortification section seems to have numbers from all over the place:
Motte gives 5 DV at £5


Motte in BoEstates v1.3 is DV4.

If you have an earlier version, there were definitely typos.

NT

One could use a similar rule as the old Lordly Domains: you can build as much in a year as your Assized Rent.

Yes. An easy rule. However, I might bump it a bit. Maybe £20 per £10 of income. A wooden tower costs £15. It probably shouldn't take a year and a half to build one.

Perhaps, 2:1 for wood but 1:1 for stone.


NT

Motte in BoEstates v1.3 is DV4.

If you have an earlier version, there were definitely typos.

NT

I posted that I am using version 1.3.2, the most recent version available on DriveThru and those are the values in the book. I'm saying the most recent version still definitely has typos, it seems. So, should Motte be DV 4 or DV 5?

My v1.3.2 has Motte DV 4.

I found the reason why the cost didn't match. For Fortified Motte, you should divide the ditch and palisade costs by two (at least), since the Motte itself is much smaller than a bailey and hence the linear fortifications are much shorter (p. 79). So: L8/2 = L4. L2 for Gateworks and L5 for the Motte = total L11. The DV, though, should be 10 instead of 9, though. This might be an artifact when we were debating ditch & palisade being 2 or 3 each.

This also increases the Motte and Bailey castle to 5/12/2. Note, by the way, that there is just ONE tower in Motte and Bailey castle, the stronghold itself, which adds to Motte's defense as well as acting as the stronghold.

I posted that I am using version 1.3.2, the most recent version available on DriveThru and those are the values in the book. I'm saying the most recent version still definitely has typos, it seems. So, should Motte be DV 4 or DV 5?

I just downloaded it. Pg. 81. DV for a Motte is 4. Regardless, it should be DV 4.

The correct DV is 5/11/2, not 5/12/2.

Defense Value: 5/11/2
Bailey (DV 5): Ditch & rampart (3), Palisade (3), Gate (-2), Gate works (1),
Motte (DV 11c): Motte (4), Ditch (2), Palisade (3), Postern Gate (-1), Gate works (1),
Stronghold DR0 (DV 2): Wooden Tower (2)


The values for the Fortified Motte are wrong. You only add a Ditch (DV 2) to the motte not a ditch and rampart, since you're already piling up dirt to make the motte. DV 5/11/2 is the standard for all M&B castles in BoWarlord.

Morien is also correct that the cost is lower (£36) because the length of the ditch and palisade around the motte is much shorter. Typical mottes were around 100 ft in diameter, although there was a lot of variability.

You're right... I was looking at the Bailey, not the Motte for the DV 5. Sorry!

As far as the other values/costs... something noting that these values/costs are less because of size would be a great errata if it happens again.

You're right... I was looking at the Bailey, not the Motte for the DV 5. Sorry!.

No problem.

RE the cost, I think it is partially assumed since the cost for a ditch or palisade is for a given length. However, you are correct that it is not clearly stated.

NT

The values for the Fortified Motte are wrong. You only add a Ditch (DV 2) to the motte not a ditch and rampart, since you're already piling up dirt to make the motte. DV 5/11/2 is the standard for all M&B castles in BoWarlord.

You know, I had that at the back of my mind, but didn't manage to quite get it out. :)

You know, I had that at the back of my mind, but didn't manage to quite get it out. :)

ONce it makes it to the back of my mind...good luck...NT