What kind of people are these .5L footmen we stock our castles with?

Where do they come from?

Who exactly are they?

How, where, why, for how long, and by whom were these people trained?

Is guarding castles considered a fairly ordinary profession? Is there a special level of status these men enjoy?

Do these men have families?

Has guard duty ever been a 'family business' so to speak?

Have there been generations of young peasant boys who said 'one day, i'll be a castle guardsman, just like my Dad'

What kind of career trajectory can a guard expect?

Is "stand at this door and stab anyone who isn't supposed to be there" considered the entry-level position of this job?

Are you expected to know what you're doing on signing up?

Is there generally a training period?

Can one expect to earn a promotion to some higher office or serjentry through sheer grit and elbow grease?

Is there any sense of seniority amongst the men?

What about job security?

Are the arms and armor provided, or is one expected to supply them out of one's own pocket, such as most mercenaries and knights of this time period?


I understand that Knight's are expected to perform garrison duty as well, but it doesn't seem like it's ever been the case that knight's have been the majority of a castle's guard compliment. In everything I can read aout castles, there's an awful lot about the structure themselves, the lords and ladies, some bits about the servants, but invariably the guards themselves are usually just "And on this corner of the illustration, here are some guards. Moving on". I feel like as much as scholarship has been put into the study of castles, there doesn't seem to be very much information about the men who actually defended them. They're usually just glossed over as another part of the scenery, given less notice than even the servants.

The character of these men is quite absent in pop history and historical fiction, as well as historical fantasy as well. However, in many of my campaigns, since my players usually enjoy Westerosizing the shit out Salisbury, guards and mercenaries they hire are often a common element. In one campaign where I was a player, I had a heated argument with the GM, who told me that if i ever STOPPED paying my guards, even if I warned them in advance, they'd murder me, loot my manor, and run off never to be seen or heard of again, because without photographs and telephones, apprehending criminals is completely impossible, right? *eyeroll*.

I've actually been thinking of writing a story about a castle guardsman, because I think it would be interesting perspective on feudal intrigue that I haven't seen done. But, as I've come to realize, I basically know nothing about castle guardsmen, and from asking around my fairly knowledgable friends, it seems that not very many people do.

So, do any of you enterprizing ladies and gentlemen, have any good resources for something like this, any historical accouts regarding such men, any well founded speculations about their backgrounds and things like this? I thought about posting this to reddit but I figured that Pendragon players are a much more highly concentrated pool of people possibly knowledgeable in this field.

I suspect that the actual historical sources are mainly silent about details such as these. History tends to be written more about nobles and clergy.

So take what follows more as speculation than anything else:

The guards would be commoners, of course. I expect that some of them would marry, and their sons would gave an advantage when it comes to filling dad's shoes, following in dad's trade being one of the cornerstones of medieval society. They would be trained by their fathers or whoever can teach them (other soldiers? Retired soldiers?). By the time you are hired you are expected to know the basics, and own your own equipment. It was actually mandatory for free men to own weapons and know how to use them in medieval England. That being said, a lord could upgrade the equipment if he so pleases.(Especially liveried uniforms/tabards became popular in late medieval.)

Job security is great. You are one of the guys that the knight trusts to guard his home and fight with him in battle. I'd imagine that a grizzled veteran, even if he loses an arm, might find some 'retirement' post in the lord's service. A newbie who hasn't proven himself yet might have a harder time if invalided out. That would also be the seniority; duration and quality of service, ypung soldiers should listen to the older ones. One thing: these guys are not mercenaries but retainers. The relationship is closer to that of a squire or a household knight, even though they are commoners. They are their lord's men.

So no, they would not be murdering their lord and robbing his manor, unless the lord has been abusing them and their families. On the other hand the lord would be moving heaven and earth to at least feed them. If he cannot feed them then he has failed in his duty to them and they'd likely head out to try and find work as mercenaries rather than starve. No doubt some might become bandits, admittedly. But this is very unlikely to happen unless the whole manorial holding has been ravaged completely, in which case they are likely dead already too.

Re: criminals. Strangers stick out like sore thumbs, too. Questions will be asked and it would be to every knight's benefit to see such murderers found and hanged.

This looks like a fun quiz
All this is my opinion
I have never seen a book about these guys

What kind of people are these .5L footmen we stock our castles with?

Where do they come from?

Peasant families, especially those with mercenary experience


Who exactly are they?

I am tempted list names here, but shan't
They are ambitious veterans who want some job security


How, where, why, for how long, and by whom were these people trained?

All free commoners are required to train with the local militia
The other deetails would vary wildly


Is guarding castles considered a fairly ordinary profession? Is there a special level of status these men enjoy?

It is not ordinary
it is very, very special
these guys live in the household of a lord!


Do these men have families?

probably not
possibly so, probably living in some rented house nearby


Has guard duty ever been a 'family business' so to speak?

It is likely that sons of guards became guards, having received extra training for their fathers


Have there been generations of young peasant boys who said 'one day, i'll be a castle guardsman, just like my Dad'

I don't know abo9ut generations of them, but certainly some said this


What kind of career trajectory can a guard expect?

Initial hiring: starting guard
2-25 years of service: guard
smart, brave guys who have proved themselves loyal to their lord could be (foot) sergeants, kind of like a NCO sergeant today


Is "stand at this door and stab anyone who isn't supposed to be there" considered the entry-level position of this job?

No, that is a high level job
Inititally they will be assigned to a veteran who teaches them


Are you expected to know what you're doing on signing up?

Probably know arms, but no one would know the exact duties of the guards until they started doing them
after all, you wouldn't tell you beginning employees all the secrets of getting in the castle, would you?


Is there generally a training period?

as I said, they will have been trained in the militia
they probably undergo regular training--no one wants amatuers guarding them


Can one expect to earn a promotion to some higher office or serjentry through sheer grit and elbow grease?

No. It also takes intelligence and luck


Is there any sense of seniority amongst the men?

Yes, as is normal
of course, there would be young guys who think they are hot shots
but anyone messing with the established order of things would quickly get bounced out


What about job security?

Probably none
One infraction and zap, back to the fields


Are the arms and armor provided, or is one expected to supply them out of one's own pocket, such as most mercenaries and knights of this time period?

I would say that the lord supplies them, and expects to get them back when the guard retires
of course, individuals will have their own if it is better than normal issue


I understand that Knight's are expected to perform garrison duty as well, but it doesn't seem like it's ever been the case that knight's have been the majority of a castle's guard compliment. In everything I can read aout castles, there's an awful lot about the structure themselves, the lords and ladies, some bits about the servants, but invariably the guards themselves are usually just "And on this corner of the illustration, here are some guards. Moving on". I feel like as much as scholarship has been put into the study of castles, there doesn't seem to be very much information about the men who actually defended them. They're usually just glossed over as another part of the scenery, given less notice than even the servants.

I think you are right
What an original opportunity for some enterprising scholar to work on!


The character of these men is quite absent in pop history and historical fiction, as well as historical fantasy as well. However, in many of my campaigns, since my players usually enjoy Westerosizing the shit out Salisbury, guards and mercenaries they hire are often a common element. In one campaign where I was a player, I had a heated argument with the GM, who told me that if i ever STOPPED paying my guards, even if I warned them in advance, they'd murder me, loot my manor, and run off never to be seen or heard of again, because without photographs and telephones, apprehending criminals is completely impossible, right? *eyeroll*.

wrong
there is some loyalty to the paymaster, and things probably wn't stay bad for ever
if they do, the guard can turn in his equipment and go elsewhere


I've actually been thinking of writing a story about a castle guardsman, because I think it would be interesting perspective on feudal intrigue that I haven't seen done. But, as I've come to realize, I basically know nothing about castle guardsmen, and from asking around my fairly knowledgable friends, it seems that not very many people do.

Most of my answers are from peripheral reading
never seen a historical account
never seen a fictional account'never seen a scholarly account
This is after approximately 55 years of reading

About loyalty. Do retainers kill and loot their boss if he does not pay?
I would say no.
Loyalty is not something that is gone over night. If a lord is unable to pay his men and he informs them about it. They will not lose their loyalty that quickly. Only if the lord abised his position will drop their loyalty. Of course they will complain when they are not paid and they may leave to find better employ elsewhere, but killing their lord and robbing him is not something you want people to know, because which lord would hire such cretins?

the lord may try to help them get new employ, but that depends on the loyalty of the lord towards his own men. This also would affect their loyalty.

As for proof. Do not make the mistake that what we call proof nowadays is the same as in the middle ages. As there was no CSI in those days proof was measured on a different level. So reputation would factor in as well as actual physical proof. Also if you were accused of a crime and do not appear not only will you be branded an outlaw (and open for all kinds of atrocities), but also your kin will suffer for it, for they will be punished as well.

Also take into account the following. If a group of soldiers murder their lord, do you really think other lords will keep that stand without retribution? they will hunt and probably kill they soldiers without remorse. If only to show other soldiers never to do that.

Guys, I had not been under this misapprehension that retainers went around murdering their lords, that was one of my GM's. I brought up that anecdote the show how no one I know really understands how retainers are suposed to *work*. I made all these arguments to him, but there's a reason I don't play in his games anymore. This wasn't n aspect of guardsmanship I was curious about.

In response to Greg, I more want to know about this militia business now that it's been brought up. How is it organized? If my memory serves rightly only the king or one of his sheriffs can actually call up the militia to fight, whose job was it to oversee training and make sure every man was armed? How often were training days, typically? I've heard people talk about every man having to train with a longbow on sundays in England, but for how long and when was that actually on the books, and to what extent was it actually enforced? What was the bare minimum of "arms" that a man was required to keep. Would a heavy stick do? Does it have to be bladed?

Also, if the retainers are pulled from the same stock as the average joe as far as training goes, does that mean that a castle guard isn't really that good a fighter compared to really any other peasant, the key difference being in equipment?

It depends on the view we take of the militia. Since the Saxons are the bad guys, we probably shouldn't look at the fyrd as a model. Instead I would look at the medieval Welsh model. Every adult male has the privilege of serving his lord in battle (note: privilege, not obligation.. essentially the same but a difference in attitude). Each individual is responsible for their own training and equipment... which would mean a wide range of experience and gear, ranging from some poor serf with a wool tunic, a club and hopefully the good sense to run when the actual fighting starts to a young man with a spear, a shield, maybe a leather cap and stout jerkin and some actual athletic experience. I might imagine this as being similar to a local neighborhood football league - some guys are good players, most are just there for the beer.

As for guardsman... well, any sensible lord would pick the most skilled and best equipped members of the militia for his castle guards. Freed somewhat from the duties for field and farm these men would have more time to train and, paid from the lord's coffers, have the means to improve their gear.

Just my $.02, for whatever it's worth.

In response to Greg, I more want to know about this militia business now that it's been brought up.

As AlnothEadricson says, the militia was not every man. Serfs did not serve.


How is it organized?

Probably by tens. Every freeman had to belong to a group of (approximately) ten men for purposes of justice
I'd be surprised if that did not carry over to the military side too


If my memory serves rightly only the king or one of his sheriffs can actually call up the militia to fight,

Correct
and only for local "police work" and in case the country is invaded


whose job was it to oversee training and make sure every man was armed?

Probably the sheriff was responsible for training, but of course he'd assign that job in each holding to someone on site. I think later these guys are called constables, which has several different meanings in law


How often were training days, typically? I've heard people talk about every man having to train with a longbow on sundays in England, but for how long and when was that actually on the books,

We're skimming the extent of my knowledge here on this subject
Longbows did enter into the English military until the reign of the Edward I, I believe


and to what extent was it actually enforced?

A lot of laws seem to exist so that the sheriff can fine them for not doing something, so in effect this is was probably enforced rigorously


What was the bare minimum of "arms" that a man was required to keep.

I depended on the value of his holding. I am not sure where at the moment but I put this in print someplace. I am sure someone with better memory than mine will tell us exactly where


Would a heavy stick do? Does it have to be bladed?

No, a heavy stick generally does not qualify. If that is all the poor peasant can afford he is probably exempt


Also, if the retainers are pulled from the same stock as the average joe as far as training goes, does that mean that a castle guard isn't really that good a fighter compared to really any other peasant, the key difference being in equipment?
I am not even sure that the equipment was better, but as Alnoth says, time for training would differ
and presumably, willingness as well
[quote]

I get the impression from what I've read of Canon for the game, that there isn't really any requirement for "every free man" to be armed until Arthur is King (BotWarlord?), so "militia" is going to be a very variable feast until that stage of a GPC. And obviously, weekly longbow practice isn't going to be a requirement (if Arthur ever instituted it) until the longbow becomes available and a mainstay of Arthur's military (which I don't think actually ever happens - the longbow isn't a significant military weapon, since the game is about knights, and the longbow is Death of Horses, and a Knight is a man on a horse, even if a man on a horse is not necessarily a Knight).

Ever see Downton Abbey? Those guys are the cultural descendants of this class. 'Footmen' meant something like Infantry at one point.

It's been a while since I was on this forum. I've had to register again just to post this.

I think Morien is correct. I kind of see it working like this.

A young lord is growing up in his father's castle. There are guards there. When it is his turn to go to war he plans, with his father's help. He takes those experienced tough guards that his dad lets him take and he takes a draft of the local lads who want or can be persuaded to come and fight. They fight. Some of those old guards give their lives to protect him and some of those lads don't come back to the village and the fields. There are vacancies in the castle's positions and the young lord or heir has a group of young war hardened men around him. These men he trusts, the ones that are suited to soldiering or who have proved themselves to him, the ones he has built up a personal relationship with in the crucible; those men he doesn't just dismiss, he keeps them on. In the castle it's a good life in the warm. They've paid their dues with the marching and the starving and their blood. Some of them may have better things to go home to, they may be a trained smith or the heir to a tenant farmer who is wealthy for a peasant but the ones who don't get a job as a guard.
They don't get paid much but it's a better life than back breaking field labour. Some of them may keep a woman down in the town. Some of the little kids running errands around the castle and getting underfoot may be theirs.
They can bully servants and townsfolk. They get to walk with a swagger around town.
And the young lord becomes the old lord. And he has a son. And then the son has to pick some men to go with him to war...

GR

Just to add to the conversation, here is a website I've used in the past.

Personally, while there are commoners who are guards, there are also noble sons who are training to be squires and knights. I've used both as members of my squire pool.

One memorable story is about a commoner I hired on, who went on and eventually became a bully and would have become a bandit if it had continued...