So my understanding is that sons of knights will become esquire's if they can't find anybody who is willing to take them on as a household knight, after their squire service is over (provided that they don't inherit any land of course)

But what of the sons of esquires what will their rank be? does it depend on whether or not they can find a knight willing take them on as a squire.

And how long does it take for you to no longer be consider to be of noble blood.

To become an esquire you first have to be trained as a squire. Sons of esquires probably do not become squires and thus no esquires as well.

Being of noble blood is a more trickier thing. there are a few things that gives you noble blood:
- Become a noble (esquire/squire or higher).
- Be the son or daughter of a noble.
- Occupy a job for a noble. Although esquires can do physical labor like commoners they usually occupy jobs like bailiff, major domo, huntman, some may become soldiers or guardsmen.
- Be able to keep yourself at a certain level of wealth. Being of noble blood requires that you keep yourself at a certain standard.

But then when you can link yourself to a noble that may also mean you have noble blood, but the further away the harder it gets. These kinsmen have probably a higher status among the other commoners, and may even be the wealthier men and women. These kinsmen are of course a pool to choose from if a lord needs loyal men, but they are usually not considered of noble blood. Of course claiming to be of noble blood usually requires a noble to accept this as well.

Great that was my thinking as well.
Thank you for your quick reply.

Obviously, YPMV & IMHO:


To become an esquire you first have to be trained as a squire. Sons of esquires probably do not become squires and thus no esquires as well.


According to the current Pendragon demographics (~10-20% of knights are vassal knights, the rest are household knights who do not marry), we NEED the esquires to marry and produce sons to squire and to be knighted, too. There is simply no way that those 10-20% vassal knights are able to even keep replenishing the household knight ranks, even ignoring the mercenary knights altogether.

This problem is alleviated a lot if a significant fraction of the household knights marry, too, even if it is later in life, and produce a son to take on the knightly mantle. But we will still need on average 3-4 squires per knight per generation (7 years per squire), so they need to come from somewhere, too.



Being of noble blood is a more trickier thing. there are a few things that gives you noble blood:
- Become a noble (esquire/squire or higher).


Not in my campaign it wouldn't. There is a difference between being of noble blood and having been a squire. A commoner squire stays a commoner. Now, if he gets knighted, that is another thing.



- Occupy a job for a noble. Although esquires can do physical labor like commoners they usually occupy jobs like bailiff, major domo, huntman, some may become soldiers or guardsmen.


Again, a job doesn't make you have noble blood. However, if you are digging ditches for a living, it can disqualify you from being considered a nobleman, so I agree on that part.



- Be able to keep yourself at a certain level of wealth. Being of noble blood requires that you keep yourself at a certain standard.


Disagreed. A starving knight is still a noble.


As for when esquire's descendants stop being noble... I'd say when they get 'degraded' in status due to doing jobs of commoners. If daddy is an esquire steward, you are a noble still, but if daddy is a thatcher, it doesn't matter than the great-granddad may have been a knight.

Sorry if I was not clear on this, but the list is not an or situation, but I meant it as a and situation. So it is not enough just be of high enough rank, but you also need to be doing the right job and keep yourself as a noble.

I focused on squires/esquires, but you are right that a starving knight is still a noble. Although his nobility may be put into question. IMHO: A vassal knight who lives as poor or god forbid impoverished knight has some explaining to do.

As for the current demographics you are right. This would mean that a son of a (E)squire stands a good chance to be trained as a squire as well. If he then is able to secure himself a good job he would still be a noble (imho).