Log in

View Full Version : Questions about items on the Luck tables



Deacon Blues
09-14-2016, 04:20 AM
So, mostly for flavor, I've taken to giving any named character a roll on the appropriate Luck table from BoK&L (also gives a good indication of what the players can loot from them if it comes to that ;) ). I feel like I had questions on several of the items, but I'm at work right now, so I'll mention the one that I remember, and will add more later when I'm in front of the book:

The Family Axe, from the Saxon Luck table. You make a roll of Love (Family), and if successful, gain 8 points of armor. First off, I was wondering if it's not supposed to be a Great Axe, seeing as Saxons have Two-Handed weapons as their special skill, and because it seems like if this stacks with a shield, this would be ridiculously good (though even if it is a Great Axe, it's still probably the best item on there). Also, if that Love (Family) roll made once, at the beginning of battle, per hit, or what?

Also, I've been playing items that require Passion rolls as not following all the normal rules for Passions (i.e., no bonus for being Inspired, no Madness, no Melancholy, I even use the regular rules for checks, where it only gets one on a crit), but this made me wonder if maybe I'm supposed to make it do all of those things every time? Any clarification/thoughts on this?

Morien
09-14-2016, 01:07 PM
Short answers your question:
- IF I had allowed such an offender as a Family Axe into my game (see below), I probably would use the Passion as an 'activation roll' and do it per hit. It would not be an Inspiration Roll, and hence would not cause bonuses or penalties on a success or a failure/fumble.
- I would allow it to be a Great Axe if the Player wanted or it fits to the named NPC. As you say, it would make the character less of an invulnerable tank. Having GMed knights with Gothic Plate, Shield and Chivalric bonus for 25 points of armor, they are pretty invulnerable to anything foot soldiers can throw at them.
- I'd be very very careful about these items, see number 2 below. Even one roll on the BoK&L Luck tables is suspect in my mind, but giving the PKs a chance to loot them from named opponents might lead to PKs getting their grubby hands on several magic items down the line. It also depends a bit what is your criteria of 'named'? If the random Saxon Raiding party is lead by Wulfgar the Unfortunate in your notes but the PKs have no idea who he is, does he get a Luck roll? Or is this only for Princes and Big Bads of the campaign? I use these tables to give the PKs some random loot: http://www.gspendragon.com/loot.html . That way, they get some extra nice stuff in addition to armor and horses, but not magic items.


Personally, I don't use BoK&L Luck tables, for two reasons:

1) All the campaigns I have run started before I got BoK&L, so we were using the KAP 5.1 table, which gives a lot less swag and much more modest magic items than BoK&L. So in the interests of fairness, all the subsequent characters use KAP 5.1, too, if they start a new bloodline. Subsequent generations get what their parents hand down, of course. As a quick comparison on the money, here is the Cymric comparison of the first three results:

KAP 5.1
01 Money (3d20 d.) (Average is 31.5d or about 1/8th of £1.)
02-03 Money (3d20+100 d.) (Average is 131.5d or a bit more than 1/2th of £1.)

BoK&L
01 Money: £30 in old Roman coin. (Just what it says, £30.)
02 Money: £3d6+15 in old Roman coin. (Average £25.5.)
03 Money: £8d6 in old Roman coin. (Average £28.)

By the way, I would be more than happy to admit that KAP 5.1 is TOO stingy, especially when it comes to money. Most of the items seem to be in the £1 region, save for the magic items which are irreplaceable, or getting an extra charger or something like that. !'d be tempted to start all knights with £1d6 funds so that they have some funds to splash around when the game starts, and then boost the extra money results to like £1 and £1d3.

2) As a personal preference, I don't want PKs to start with a Legendary Weapon like the Family Axe mentioned in the original post! They can darn well earn them in quests! To add even greater offender from the BoK&L Cymric list:
"Christian: Tooth of Saint Germanus, a Christian relic: Shout Alleluia and attempt Love (God) roll. Success causes all
Germanic Pagans to make a Valor Roll (failure = they flee); and, beforehand, the shouter can distribute a total of 20 points
among opponents that are subtracted from their Valor (i.e.- one foe gets –20, two get -10 each, twenty get -1 each, etc."

Can you say "Win any battle against Saxons"? With the average Valorous of 15, 25% of the Saxon army would suddenly turn and flee (Saxon Warrior in KAP 5.1 has Valorous of 12, so that would be 40% fleeing or the hills...). This is huge. Most field battles are resolved with around 10% losses, before one side acknowledges defeat and starts retreating, taking additional losses whilst trying to break contact. Having one fourth of your army suddenly fleeing straight away would cause a catastrophic rout there and then (even more so if it is almost half of the army running). Even if you limit this to 'those within earshot', there is nothing here to limit the use of the relic! Just keep on shouting 'Alleluia' and watch the Saxons run! IF I'd allow it, I'd definitely limit it to earshot, so probably at best a few hundred Saxons would be rolling Valorous, and make it once per day or something like that. Also, I WOULD make the activation roll into an Inspiration roll, with full penalties for failure and fumble. In the interests of fairness, there might be opposing 'magic items' on the other side, too, like Gjallarhorn, the Horn of Heimdall, allowing you to rally fearful allies and boosting the Valorous, etc.

But this leads into a profusion of magic items, which I don't want in my campaign. I want each magic item to feel unique and rare. Arthur has Excalibur, but that is pretty much it: most of the RTKs use just normal swords. If the PKs manage to find/gain a magic sword like Heart Blade or Wyrmbane from published adventures, that needs to be a significant moment, and it is diluted, in my opinion, of being able to loot them from 'random' albeit named opponents.

Deacon Blues
09-14-2016, 09:05 PM
I consider named to be a boss, basically. So yeah, a prince or enemy leader, plus the odd personal grudge enemy. Someone who I spend the time to make as a full character, as opposed to just using a random stat block for.

Yeah, I fully realize that some of those items are overpowered, but eh. Most of the time, it works out okay, I just rolled a guy with that and it put his armor at a crazy level. I've already nerfed he Tooth of Saint Germanus to only apply once per battle.

And I don't have too much of a problem with magic items, at least not yet. So far, the Family Axe is the only thing that anybody's ever rolled that seemed somewhat powerful to me, mostly because I didn't know how the hell they could ever damage that dude. Minor magic items don't really bother me, though I could see not wanting it proliferated; and I only ACTUALLY allow looting of an enemy's magic if they kill him, and actually have the chance to get it from them. It's only come up once, and it was during a battle, and the player did the extended rounds in order to pick up the guy's sword, taking all the appropriate penalties whilst doing so; and after the battle, I said that if he wanted to keep it, he had to forego his share of loot. I don't remember what the sword does off top my head, but it's barely affected gameplay.

dwarinpt
09-14-2016, 11:51 PM
As I see it, you can't use the Tooth of Saint Germanous all the time. You kneel to God in humble prayer (that's why you roll a Love: God) and you most definitely won't do that mid-battle or even during a normal melee. Sure, you can prepare yourself beforehand, but if the combat is staged correctly, you'll get a good advantage in the first few rounds, then reinforcements may come. At best, the relic will give you a running start, then you better use other resources because dice are finicky. And I wouldn't allow a player to go around just shouting Alleluia every other round to scare Saxons off.

One of my players rolled the Tooth and we decided that he could earn it after a few dramatic scenes of showing his love of God (to earn the Passion). Then, when he is deemed worthy, his mother will give him the relic. The player went along. The player knows the relic is there, but the character doesn't. Have fun with this character creation system but don't be a slave to the rolls.

As for proliferation of magic items, this is certainly not D&D but there are a few magic items in Le Morte d'Artur: Excalibur, the scabbard that Arthur uses that prevents him from bleeding, the horn that shows whose wife is adulterous, a magic ring that changes the appearance of a knight to name a few. These all are more than magic items. They are plot items. They serve a purpose in the narrative, so should magic items in your Pendragon games. Instead of just an item to modify the roll, it should add to the story. How will the knight who instils fear into the hearts of Saxons be viewed by others? What is his reputation among the Saxons? In the church? In the court? Will others be envious of his power? Afraid? What if he Fumbles the Love (God) roll? Will something "unmiraculous" happen? Be creative!