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Danharms
11-05-2016, 09:30 PM
We're getting ready for year 591, which brings us to the battle with Gorlois at Terrabil.

When you look at the rules and the circumstances, Gorlois seems to be at a huge disadvantage. He's a tiny guy with low HP. Even though he's impassioned, that only affects his Sword skill, and his mace skill isn't even listed.

There's some advantage to him being on his horse, as the knights will likely be on foot, and his high Horsemanship will negate most chances of a knockdown. Still, I don't see him lasting very long.

He's also got bodyguards - but a group of experienced, impassioned knights on horseback would tend to turn the tide in the other direction entirely.

How would, or did, you handle this fight in your games?

Morien
11-05-2016, 10:24 PM
Killing Gorlois should be hard, IMHO. It shouldn't be a cakewalk that it most certainly will be if you allow the PKs to swarm him.

In our campaign, I had one bodyguard knight (skill 18+5 mounted) for every PK that they had to fight. I think I gave the PKs an opportunity to get inspired by Loyalty (Madog) or (Uther), due to the Crown Prince being in mortal danger. I am not 100% about this, though. In any case, one PK got lucky, cut the legs off a horse and then rushed to engage Gorlois, alas, slightly late. I did not give the bodyguards a Passion roll until AFTER Gorlois had been engaged. As it happens, the PK managed to swat Gorlois from the saddle with the first blow and that was that. They managed to mop up the bodyguards after that.

I think it needs to be pointed out that we did have a few houserules in play:
1) If on foot, you can aim for the horse and negate the -5 penalty for attacking a horseman (NPCs, especially Saxons, can use this too...). The PKs did this as a general rule against the bodyguards, and once their horses were crippled (major wound), it was much easier to deal with the bodyguards.
2) Impassioned gives only +5 to skill (+10 on a critical).
3) Unspent (saved) Glory Bonus Points can be used to turn a Lost combat resolution into a Win (you succeed, enemy fails). (I forget if this played any role in the fight.)

Also, all the PKs (as far as I recall) were 6d6+ combat monsters, and the bodyguards were rather weak (i.e. regular knights in their 30s) at skill 18 and damage 5d6. So I didn't stack the deck as badly as I could have.

Another alternative is to have N-1 bodyguards where N is the number of PKs. Highest DEX/Status/Glory gets to choose his opponent first, etc... This would give one PK a chance to duel Gorlois while the rest keep the bodyguards busy.

As for Gorlois' Mace skill, I think I used something like Sword-2. I can't recall anymore, and I didn't write it down in my notes.

womble
11-06-2016, 10:56 AM
In the game I played, the PCs, on foot did pigpile the mounted Gorlois. Our GM gave us one round before the bodyguards got there (I forget exactly why; I think my PK, as the leader critted his Battle roll and then committed immediately, so "initiative" got its reward) and it was enough to drag him off his horse and nail him (some luck/Impassion involved there, too). There were 4 combat-effective player knights (and a Lady, being trained up to be a Knight) vs 6 Impassioned, mounted, lance-charging bodyguards. We felt like Saxons must in most battles... As the one who got everyone into the mess, I took on the extra Knight, and got skewered for my pains; I have a feeling I failed my Honour passion roll, but that could have been another time. The remaining combat-effectives (the Lady was mostly fighting all-out Defensively) managed to down their opponents (there were a couple of combat monsters - one PK is at 7D damage and was using a mace... Another's sword was well over 20 and his Passion put him near equal with his mounted opponents) sufficiently quickly to reverse the odds, particularly once the charge advantage was spent. So taking out Gorlois cost us our highest Glory PK. Looking back, I *might* have been able to survive (down, major wounded) if I'd split my defenses differently.

From our POV, it was a victory, with the edge taken off. Which, with my GM head on, is the sort of feels you're aiming for at that stage of the game. It could, of course, with those odds, have gone very differently; IMO, that was about the best result we could have expected.

Morien
11-06-2016, 11:33 AM
Consulting GPC, it is pretty clear that the By-the-Book way is to allow the PKs to dogpile Gorlois and take him out in one turn. Which should easily happen, unopposed attacks from all the PKs present... (I'd limit it to 2 mounted or 3 on foot, as per the usual rules of multiple opponents, regardless.) And only then do the bodguards intervene.

I admit that I was unsatisfied with that from the get-go, as it is basically an unearned victory for the PKs, especially given that BotE had suggestions that it should result in an Estate, which is a huge reward (I made it a gift in Tintagel county in our game, which meant that with Idres' conquest during Anarchy, it quickly lost its lands).

I think, were I to GM it again, that I would go with this kind of a setup:

Opposition: N-1 bodyguards + Gorlois. Bodyguard skill likely in 18-20 region, depending a bit on the PKs. Damage likely 5d6, unless they are facing a lot of 6d6 monsters with axes and maces, in which case I might go for 6d6. They do NOT have lances, as they have used those already charging in and killing Madog's bodyguards.
Allow one PK to attack Gorlois (with +-0 as Gorlois is on horseback but rearming to his mace thanks to his stuck sword). The rest of them fight the bodyguards, but if they take their opponent down, then they get to pile on Gorlois, too. Loyalty [Pendragon/Madog] rolls allowed for the PKs, due to Madog's death. The bodyguards may get inspired once Gorlois is wounded.

womble
11-06-2016, 04:09 PM
Aye. An Estate would be a bit much. Our lot were Bachelor Knights at the outset of the battle, and got "their" Manors (having started Manorless, even though it's the first time playing for most of us and so "classically" they "should" have started enfeoffed) for it.

Hzark10
11-12-2016, 03:31 PM
What I did was give the characters a choice as to where they wanted to go: Terrabil or the war camp. Beforehand I had already randomized how many bodyguards there would be with Gorlois. The players chose, and those at the camp were attacked by Gorlois and his bodyguards at night (the sentries and forces guarding were bypassed, how the players found out later), but two PC's decided to fight two bodyguards so that one PC could attack Gorlois directly. Because of a lucky critical, one of the bodyguards went down in the first round and they managed to defeat Gorlois by gangtackling him eventually. He did put down one PC, but was tied up by the other fighting defensively. My group really felt good after this battle, and the one player who was killed replaced him with a Cornish knight who swore loyalty to Uther upon his marriage. They used this battle as a rally cry for the next few years.

Danharms
12-12-2016, 12:15 AM
Thanks, everyone!

Outcome:

There's a bit mentioned in the battle for Round 3 which stipulates that characters may absorb an attack to arrive at Madoc and Gorlois, or simply fight to them. I ruled that anyone who ran in would have a chance to attack Gorlois without the bodyguards interfering.

Two of the three knights decided to absorb the blow (shots from archers, as it turned out - no great danger) and made it to Gorlois quickly. They made short work of him. The third character ran into an impassioned bodyguard and ended up unconscious with one hit. I think this highlights the amount of variation in ways this encounter could be played.