First, I understand that Pendragon isn't a D&D:esque high fantasy fireballs and lightning setting, and that is something I like about it. Magic is mysterious and strange, and all good people shudder when coming into contact with it. However, since there are multiple characters and enemies that can use magic, and use it against the PKs, what are the mechanics to this? Take Nineve for example, she has several abilities listed under her Magic: Animal Friend, Banish, Blessing, Curse, Emotion, Glamour, Healing, Sacred Space. Some of these are easy to do narratively (a free Healing Rate, a friendly animal companion, a blessing or a curse on a PKs lands etc.), but some are more difficult (Banish? Emotion? Glamour? Curse on the knight himself?). If a knight wishes to resist an emotion or see through a glamour, how would this work? How would the spells themselves work, or would they just go off automatically? That's fine for NPCs, but should a PK or a player lady (PL?) learn a spell through something, how would they go about using them?

Then there is the Fairie Bane a lot of NPCs have. It's simple enough that the fae shudder when coming in contact with iron or a holy symbol, but what do they do more precisely? Also, some of the Fairie Banes have a number after them (Doppelganger for example has a 75) and some don't. Is there a meaning behind this? I've been thinking about just rollind a D100, and if it is below the rating then the fairie is banished back to the fae, but then how about the ones without a rating (auto success, I guess). How about the ones with scores above 100? Does a goblin just go "poof" if hit once with a sword? Then why have faerie bane at all?

I'm guessing a lot of this a vestigial from previous editions, but since our group is very interested in exploring the magical aspects of Arthurian mythos, these are important questions left unanswered by the rules.

Yes, vestigial aspects of the rules. Book of Magic has been mentioned to be in the works by Greg, but it has been a while since there has been an update on that on this Forum.

Personally... Magic is best kept as a plot device. Need the villainous necromancer being able to raise a dozen skeletal warriors from the old battlefield to fight the knights? Need it to be 2000 skeletal warriors so that it is an actual invasion? Great, that happens. I also pretty much ignore the Faerie Banes (save the revulsion towards holy symbols, although I would require a Spiritual roll for those), which are quite rare in our campaign. Instead, I might give a damage bonus for cold forged iron (which swords are not, unless it is a special order) against Faerie.

Taliesin is probably your guy when it comes to Faeries and eldrich beings in campaigns, currently. He runs a more fantasy horror campaign than I do, and he no doubt has some good ideas that he may or may not wish to share. :)

Need the villainous necromancer being able to raise a dozen skeletal warriors from the old battlefield to fight the knights? Need it to be 2000 skeletal warriors so that it is an actual invasion? Great, that happens.
Agreed, and that is how I treat magic when it doesn't directly affect the players. But trying to see through a glamour for instance, or fighting off a curse that is slowly turning them to stone would require some kind of a mechanic (though as I write this it occurs to me that the curse could use the mechanics for poisoning, with a set number of fails leading to petrification and seeing through the glamour could be done with Recognize or Awareness with some negative modifiers thrown in).


I also pretty much ignore the Faerie Banes (save the revulsion towards holy symbols, although I would require a Spiritual roll for those), which are quite rare in our campaign. Instead, I might give a damage bonus for cold forged iron (which swords are not, unless it is a special order) against Faerie.
Might end up doing exactly that, and just not have faeries wander on to sacred ground. My players managed to piss off the Unseelie court fairly early in our campaign, so they'll be dealing with the consequences of that for some time to come.


Taliesin is probably your guy when it comes to Faeries and eldrich beings in campaigns, currently. He runs a more fantasy horror campaign than I do, and he no doubt has some good ideas that he may or may not wish to share. :)
You know of any good ritual to summon him?

(though as I write this it occurs to me that the curse could use the mechanics for poisoning, with a set number of fails leading to petrification and seeing through the glamour could be done with Recognize or Awareness with some negative modifiers thrown in).

Exactly. You can easily come up with your own rules for what the players are rolling against, in each case. Magic is just window-dressing. Differences between modifiers account for the skill of the sorcerer. For example, seeing through a glamour of a minor goblin-type faerie might be easy enough, but doing the same when it is a Faerie Prince would require a critical roll... assuming the PKs would even suspect that something is wrong, since it looks so real.

You really only need rules for casting magic if you allow magic-using player characters. Otherwise, it is simply a special attack or a test for a player to roll. IMHO and all that.



You know of any good ritual to summon him?

One does not simply summon the chief of bards; one merely speaks his name aloud and lets the wind carry it to his ears, for him to decide whether he will answer or not. :) You could search the threads he has started, though, for some Faerie ideas. Such as these:

http://nocturnalmediaforum.com/iecarus/forum/showthread.php?2686-Goblin-glamour
http://nocturnalmediaforum.com/iecarus/forum/showthread.php?2778-Changelings-anyone
http://nocturnalmediaforum.com/iecarus/forum/showthread.php?1550-Quickie-scenario-help-needed
http://nocturnalmediaforum.com/iecarus/forum/showthread.php?1690-The-early-Church-and-Faerie

Just for completeness' sake, two points:

- KAP 4th Edition included extensive rules for Magic, and also the possibility to create magic-using PCs and to include them in the story. Of course it's no longer canon, but the PDF is available on Drivethru for 10 $, so maybe you could be interested in buying it to get some KAP-compatible ideas on magic. I must add that IMHO the magic system of KAP 4th felt very authentic, interestingly varied and true to the sources. Magic-wielding PCs were perhaps not very playable, but THEORETICALLY viable.

- There has been a (very brief) discussion on the matter of Faerie Banes here:
http://nocturnalmediaforum.com/iecarus/forum/showthread.php?2903-great-pendragon-campaign-doppleganger
where no conclusion was reached.

Some of my ideas to resist magic:
Magic does try to do something and that usually means there is a way to resist it. as others mentioned this means some type of roll. Some examples on how I deal with it.

Glamour:
First of all this is more than an ilusion, it is actually real, although it cannot kill you. So seeing through it is extremely hard. and sometimes you do not want to break the spell. also knowing that it is a glamour may not break the spell.
Awareness may give some clues of a fault or curious event.
Example: In my game a redcap is harrassing the PKs. He has glamour to alter his appearance, but always has something red on his head (red hair, red helmet or a red cap). This has made the PKs suspicious of all red headed people, but they are usually wrong if they suspect the person is the redcap.
Trusting vs Suspicious roll may reveal also the glamour, although I would only make them roll if the players indicate that they are suspicious. Wether they need to succeed in trusting or suspicious is depending on the situation.
Example: A necromancer had cast a spell on a forest to keep people away. the forest tried to veer him off course. The PK needed to succeed in his trusting to follow the right track. He needed to trust his instinct and not the clues from the forest.
Example: The PKs follow a fae and he suddenly dissappears into the rocks. They must succeed suspicious to find that not all rocks are real and find the opning into the mountain.

Curses:
THe curse does somehting. If it slowly turns you into stone you could have them roll for DEX or CON to resist the curse or slow it down. Or maybe they can pray to God and hope he helps them (aka roll Pious).

As for magic wielding PKs you could use the 4th ed rules. They have a lot of rules on the power you have and it is different on different places. Casting fae magic is in Stonehenge easier for instance. If I remember correctly: That is also the number that is sometimes mentioned. It means you need a set number of power to be able to banish the creature

But if it is only a gimmick or only one spell or power, you could make it like skill roll. You could also relate that to existing skills. for instance someone has the healing hands of a king he gets a +3 on the damage healing rolls of First aid. Or if someone can affect emotions in others he can roll for his Play(harp). You could make this even more difficult to have the PK also succeed in the trait or passion itself for it to have effect. the result would be that the victims are affected by the emotion and thus must roll for it.

I always link magic to Traits or Passions when I can. An Enchantress gives you a passion for her that works like an Amor, or a song makes you drowsy so roll Energetic. If the magic is particularly powerful you get a penalty in line with how the Valorous modifiers for creatures works. A goblin probably gives you +5, but the aforementioned Elf Lord could be -10 or more.

Thanks for bumping this post — I'd forgotten about it.

As Morien said, I run a lot of Fae activity in my game. Alas, there's not a lot in the rules when it comes down to details of how Fae magic works, or how it's countered. So I had to make up some stuff. You can see some discussions of it here:

http://nocturnalmediaforum.com/iecarus/forum/showthread.php?2778-Changelings-anyone&highlight=Faerie'

and here:

http://nocturnalmediaforum.com/iecarus/forum/showthread.php?2686-Goblin-glamour&highlight=Faerie

Be warned, this second one is a very in-depth, prolonged discussion, with Greg chiming in, and chiding us when we're “wrong.” If you want to cut to the chase and get my final thoughts on some rules concerning Fae magic, jump all the way to the last post! There I tried to distill everything I'd learned into some sort of coherent, useful framework.


T.