http://i.imgur.com/DfFeOG4.png


The main addition here is the 'House of Rydychan' which I've largely invented for my own purposes, by rolling the Duke of the Marche, the Countess of Rydychan, and the mother of Prince Madoc into one family.

I also have it that Ellen is Duke Ulfius' niece, and that Ulfius' sister Ysbail is the wife of Duke Edaris

I haven't made it to Anarchy in the play-by-post I'm running currently, but I like to have these kinds of things written down in advance of needing them.

In my game, Edaris is Earl of Rydychan before Uther names him duke over Rydychan and Wuerensis (which happens at the end of 485 in my game, rather than 480), so his daughter remains 'Countess of Rydychan' when he dies as in the GPC. His wife Ysbail, sister of Duke Ulfius and Aunt of Lady Ellen, holds (in name) the Town of Oxenford and a few surrounding manors as her dower (widow's gift), making HER the 'Lady of Oxenford'.

Countess Siwan won't be the one who offers the "if you take back my land and hold it in my name, it's yours" deal, that strikes me as just a wee bit insane. Instead, Siwan makes grant of her mother's dower, and -Ysbail- offers -those- lands (the town of Oxenford, and say 10-20 manors) as reward to be divied out to those who expel her daughter's usurpers.

I'm thinking of also having Ysbail and Siwan be allies of Nineve, a little on the evil side. Partially just to distinguish one countess from another (my Ellen is sharp as a tack but honest and forgiving in most cases), also to do a little subversion of the lady in distress trope. Giving the fair dame a little agency would be interesting. Also for this reason ("my wierd sister with her wierd hobbies, and that wierd daughter of hers"), Ulfius and Uffo are a little distrusting towards that side of the family, which is part of why Ulfius doesn't just swoop in and kick some usurper ass himself like I imagine he would normally do under the circumstances. I like to imagine Siwan with more of a seductive streak than I think the campaign book intended, with Ysbail backing her up with some petty reserves of magic and general strateg. She was a Duke's wife, a broad one does not take lightly.

Also, Edaris is Madoc's uncle in my game. Young Uther, after landing with the great Breton army in 466 under Ambrosius' banner, shacked up with Edaris' sister Mared while marching through Rydchan. No doubt Uther would have done the upright thing and put a ring on it if presented with the dilemma, but by the time her condition began to show he was already in Cambria, and the girl died giving birth a few months later in early 467. Edaris fosters Madoc for most of the boy's life, which I believe would be the suitable arrangement given that Madoc doesn't become the crown prince until 480.

Nice. Non-canonical (after BotW, BoU and Marriage of Count Roderick, at the very least), but nice.

Thanks. You're right about the non-canon, I had half a mind to stick this in houserules, but figured that forum is better left to customized mechanics, rather than lore and setting.

Speaking of which, I've got a ton just from this year. It's a play-by-post that's been going at a reasonable speed for about two months now, still in 485.

My campaign is a whole fantasia of made-up lore, alterations, and mistakes-being-run-with, and the player's haven't even been knighted yet. I must be stopped.

Old Garr's real name is Gaius in my game. He came over to Logres with the Breton host, as a decurion of a band of ex-roman mercenaries, in which capacity he became acquainted with Sir Elad during the war. His comrades called him 'garr' as short for 'garum', the foul-smelling roman condiment made of salted fish-guts left out in the sun, as a dig against his hygeine. He retired after a windfall from mount snowdon, lost his money gambling and drinking, began presenting himself as a priest (without being able to read a word) and took up in the isolated village of Imber, where he took a mistress and fathered a son, 'Young Garr'.

Roderick was one of Aurelius Ambrosius' squires at one point. He would've been around the right age by my estimation, so why not.

Sir Blains is a bit justified in hating Roderick. Roderick not only swiped Ellen out from under him, he also slew Blain's young romantic of a brother in a duel, while all three were wooing the lady independently.

Ambrius Hundred is the best wool country for miles, and Salisbury is one of the key wool exporting country in Logres. Every spring it gets sheered and picked at Amesbury, then rafted up-river to Upavon for weaving, then rafted back down-river to Sarum and Wilton for consumption and export. Because of this, Amesbury is hugely financially important.

There is a single brothel in Sarum, that is allowed to operate by permission of Bishop Roger, in exchange for a watchful eye and a reasonable tax. It deals exclusively in foreign, pagan, slaves, usually convicts. Namely Saxons, Irish, and Picts.

All Saxons are Blonde, and all Cymrics are not (instead running the range between raven-haired and red-haired).

Because of this, Sir Elad of Vagon has the nickname "Strawcutter", in reference to his proficiency in and proclivity towards lopping off saxon heads.

Sir Hywel is the Castellan of Tilshead, Sir Amig is the only-for-life Lord of Ebble. There isn't a grand design there, I just made a mistake in expositing to my players and have decided not to change it.

Earl/Count = Inheritable Shrievalty + Ceremonial stuff, attached to an honour.

Two squires per knight is standard, a young squire 'valet', and an older squire 'armiger'.

Baronial holdings are estimated by the Eschille (5-20 Lances, 10 normal), rather than down to the Libra value. There is a fair bit of leeway involed there, it is the unenforcable understanding that a baron will show up with as many troops as he's able to, with most things it's run off the understanding, which is part of wh Uther has such a hard time putting a big arm together reliably, in addition to the recalcitrant and rebellious dukes.

Roderick owes 10 eschilles to Uther, of which he commits to supply 15 knights each, being an honorable vassal and well known to be the greatest private landholder in Logres save Lucius of Caercolun by a hair's breadth, and the king himself of course.

Thanks. You're right about the non-canon, I had half a mind to stick this in houserules, but figured that forum is better left to customized mechanics, rather than lore and setting.

All the power to you. I simply mentioned it in case someone was under the impression that this was the official family tree. :)

Some additional comments I didn't have time for before...



Countess Siwan won't be the one who offers the "if you take back my land and hold it in my name, it's yours" deal, that strikes me as just a wee bit insane. Instead, Siwan makes grant of her mother's dower, and -Ysbail- offers -those- lands (the town of Oxenford, and say 10-20 manors) as reward to be divied out to those who expel her daughter's usurpers.


It is an insane reward, and even 10-20 manors + Oxenford is insane, as it is enough for a baron, easily. One thing to keep in mind is that the scale of landholding has changed dramatically from Lordly Domains and GPC to BotW. In the olden days, the nobles were regional. The Countess of Rydychan owned the whole of Rydychan. While during the Anarchy this regionality likely happens again, as the regional warlords gobble up neighboring estates to defend them against the Saxons and rivals, the whole of Rydychan is so not for her to grant for good. Not to mention that if she would give all of her land away to vassals, what would she and her children live on, then? Nothing, that is what.

Checking GPC: "The countess will grant a holding to anyone who will take it from one of these knights and hold it loyally for her." In the follow-up text, it is clear that this refers to individual manors, not the whole county. Finally, it would be a very rare PK who could muster enough of an army to take out a county (see below for more).



I'm thinking of also having Ysbail and Siwan be allies of Nineve, a little on the evil side. Partially just to distinguish one countess from another (my Ellen is sharp as a tack but honest and forgiving in most cases), also to do a little subversion of the lady in distress trope. Giving the fair dame a little agency would be interesting. Also for this reason ("my wierd sister with her wierd hobbies, and that wierd daughter of hers"), Ulfius and Uffo are a little distrusting towards that side of the family, which is part of why Ulfius doesn't just swoop in and kick some usurper ass himself like I imagine he would normally do under the circumstances. I like to imagine Siwan with more of a seductive streak than I think the campaign book intended, with Ysbail backing her up with some petty reserves of magic and general strateg. She was a Duke's wife, a broad one does not take lightly.


Except that the way it is written in Lordly Domains, Silchester does help, quite significantly. (Indeed, that adventure is written from the perspective of the PKs being Ulfius' vassals...) However, no such claim is made in GPC (which is much more bare bones outline than the one in LD). Still, I admit I have hard time believing that Ulfius would let his own niece usurped and not do anything, despite any misgivings. Not only would this make him look weak and dishonorable (doesn't even protect his own family, why would we trust him to protect us?), but Rydychan represents wealth and knights he could gather justly under his own banner and thus make Silchester much more able to keep the Saxons at bay.

In our campaigns, the reconquest took the backing of Salisbury and Silchester, resulting in Rydychan becoming a vassal of Silchester. If Salisbury would have managed it alone, then perhaps Rydychan would have become their vassal, but it is clear from the setup of the Lordly Domains adventure that Silchester has already done some heavy lifting (reconquest of Oxford), and they would expect some reward from that. The PKs who distinguished themselves got manors in Rydychan, though, and I thought that was a reasonable reward. (Silchester started by reconquering Oxford, but with Wessex suddenly appearing on their southern border, Ulfius didn't feel he could afford to spare knights to finish the job. Salisbury stepped in to provide enough knights to at least stalemate the remaining brothers, and thanks to some good rolling, even managed to give the brothers a stinging defeat. Silchester then joined in the next year when it was clear that Wessex would be busy elsewhere, and finished the last brother off.)



Also, Edaris is Madoc's uncle in my game. Young Uther, after landing with the great Breton army in 466 under Ambrosius' banner, shacked up with Edaris' sister Mared while marching through Rydchan. No doubt Uther would have done the upright thing and put a ring on it if presented with the dilemma, but by the time her condition began to show he was already in Cambria, and the girl died giving birth a few months later in early 467. Edaris fosters Madoc for most of the boy's life, which I believe would be the suitable arrangement given that Madoc doesn't become the crown prince until 480.

Nice idea. I don't think Madoc's mother has been mentioned in print, but having her to be a reasonably highly placed lady would explain why everyone seems to go along with Madoc being the the heir and Uther not being concerned with marrying.



Roderick was one of Aurelius Ambrosius' squires at one point. He would've been around the right age by my estimation, so why not.


He is about the right age, sure.



Sir Blains is a bit justified in hating Roderick. Roderick not only swiped Ellen out from under him, he also slew Blain's young romantic of a brother in a duel, while all three were wooing the lady independently.


I doubt that they would need much more incentive to hate one another, but sure, some bloodshed helps to make it even more personal.



Two squires per knight is standard, a young squire 'valet', and an older squire 'armiger'.


I almost wish that would be the norm. It would address one of my biggest gripes in the setup of having squires fighting in BoB2. Now, if instead of 14 year old lads with Sword 5, those 'battle squires' were 18+ year old armigers with Sword 10+, I would have much less of a concern.

All the power to you. I simply mentioned it in case someone was under the impression that this was the official family tree. :)

Some additional comments I didn't have time for before...

It is an insane reward, and even 10-20 manors + Oxenford is insane, as it is enough for a baron, easily. One thing to keep in mind is that the scale of landholding has changed dramatically from Lordly Domains and GPC to BotW. In the olden days, the nobles were regional. The Countess of Rydychan owned the whole of Rydychan. While during the Anarchy this regionality likely happens again, as the regional warlords gobble up neighboring estates to defend them against the Saxons and rivals, the whole of Rydychan is so not for her to grant for good. Not to mention that if she would give all of her land away to vassals, what would she and her children live on, then? Nothing, that is what.

Checking GPC: "The countess will grant a holding to anyone who will take it from one of these knights and hold it loyally for her." In the follow-up text, it is clear that this refers to individual manors, not the whole county. Finally, it would be a very rare PK who could muster enough of an army to take out a county (see below for more).



Naturally, I'd figured Rydychan might have around 100 manors, of which the Earl held say 36, instead of 60. Widow's gift = 1/3 Husband's land, so 12 manors. Even if the PK's are the only people who take up the cause and finance a war to oust the usurpers, if it's 4 PK's as in my game, that's only 3 manors each, which seems fair given the peril in undertaking.




Except that the way it is written in Lordly Domains, Silchester does help, quite significantly. (Indeed, that adventure is written from the perspective of the PKs being Ulfius' vassals...) However, no such claim is made in GPC (which is much more bare bones outline than the one in LD). Still, I admit I have hard time believing that Ulfius would let his own niece usurped and not do anything, despite any misgivings. Not only would this make him look weak and dishonorable (doesn't even protect his own family, why would we trust him to protect us?), but Rydychan represents wealth and knights he could gather justly under his own banner and thus make Silchester much more able to keep the Saxons at bay.


I haven't read any Lordly Domains, myself.

The witchcraft thing was only tertiary, really. The main reason why I reckon he won't go gangbusters on the Usurpers is that 3 castles are 3 castles. Ulfius borders Sussex and Essex, and is just a hop away from Wessex and Kent, holding dominion over a very wide area. I think he is much more concerned in consolidating the estates within the vale and keeping a strong front against the saxons at his doorstep, than diverting a sizable portion of his army to get bogged down in sieges far away from the enemy.

I think maybe he and Ellen will work something out to Co-sponsor the campaign, with Ulfius dispatching say 20 Lances under Sir Uffo, Ellen loaning command of say 20 household knights amongst the PK's, the rest of the invasion force needing be self-financed by the players.

Naturally, I'd figured Rydychan might have around 100 manors, of which the Earl held say 36, instead of 60. Widow's gift = 1/3 Husband's land, so 12 manors. Even if the PK's are the only people who take up the cause and finance a war to oust the usurpers, if it's 4 PK's as in my game, that's only 3 manors each, which seems fair given the peril in undertaking.


(Quick note: Widow's gift is only for the duration of the widow's life. You can only make a gift until then, not a grant. Just to point that out.)

Sure, if they are the only ones, but like you say below...



I think maybe he and Ellen will work something out to Co-sponsor the campaign, with Ulfius dispatching say 20 Lances under Sir Uffo, Ellen loaning command of say 20 household knights amongst the PK's, the rest of the invasion force needing be self-financed by the players.

... even assuming that the PKs are the leaders, there are still 40 other knights (or their liege lords) being compensated for their efforts. I do agree with your reasoning why Ulfius can't turn his full might against the usurpers.

(Quick note: Widow's gift is only for the duration of the widow's life. You can only make a gift until then, not a grant. Just to point that out.)


I know, which is why I said "Siwan makes grant of her mother's dower" so that she can offer it out as reward. Seems sensible given that the ownership is purely academic at this point.

Ah, I missed that. OK then, although a bit rough on the mother. But I think you mentioned that she apprives thus too. :)

She does, Ysbail and Siwan are going to be a power-team, with Ysbail retaining power-behind-the-throne in her daughter's court, even if she herself doesn't retain lands directly. They and Nineve are playing chess, the warlords are playing connect-4.