My players have managed to make it up to 493 in the GPC. They've managed to collect a fair bit of coin from ransoms and treasure. They are looking to spend it. I'd give one of my player a manor for killing a Duke in single combat but he is a Saxon (jute) dog that everyone hates, (the free hit during the battle that players have to take actually almost resulted in a TPK. It's dangerous to let someone attack you unopposed when they have a sword of 18, +5 for being on a horse!).

The players have so far hired a Chirurgeon, a Valet, a groom and a herald. Now they are looking to hire a Herbalist.

While I'm all for players spending their hard earned coin/surplus food, I do have some questions regarding the sharing of their entourage. While I can understand the chirurgeon getting commanded to heal the other players during combat and what not, the poor NPC feels he should be compensated in addition to his 1L of upkeep, for that is the deal to be on retainer for the one lord.

The players are now looking to hire an herbalist,
This commoner is typically of rural origin, and knows
many traditional treatments to fight ill health. Massage,
skeletal manipulation, and other physical methods may be
added to a regimen of tinctures, teas, powders and neck
sachets to obtain the potion effect below.
Key Skill: None, only gains additional (see below).
Upkeep: £2
Additional: Grants +1d6 to the patient’s CON roll for one
year when the regimen of daily ingestion is followed. The
bonus is not for hit points, but benefits anything else (consciousness,
resisting disease, etc.).

The players are very excited because a lot have been putting their glory point into Con to prevent major wounds which they see as the biggest threat to their characters (not wrong on that). My question is does the CON bonus count for major wounds (which I see as being overpowered, disease sure, poison maybe). Also I see it as impossible for one herbalist to provide his services to all 6 player characters as they live in different areas during the year, and he certainly wouldn't do it for just 2L.

Thoughts?

While I'm all for players spending their hard earned coin/surplus food, I do have some questions regarding the sharing of their entourage. While I can understand the chirurgeon getting commanded to heal the other players during combat and what not, the poor NPC feels he should be compensated in addition to his 1L of upkeep, for that is the deal to be on retainer for the one lord.


The deal is that the retainer does what the lord commands. I have no problems with the chirurgeon ('party healer') looking after a bunch of PKs who are all convalescing in the same manor, or patching them up after the same battle. However, if the chirurgeon is supposed to be travelling across Salisbury to various manors, I would definitely penalize his Chirurgery skill, since he is not there at hand if complications arise.




The players are very excited because a lot have been putting their glory point into Con to prevent major wounds which they see as the biggest threat to their characters (not wrong on that). My question is does the CON bonus count for major wounds (which I see as being overpowered, disease sure, poison maybe). Also I see it as impossible for one herbalist to provide his services to all 6 player characters as they live in different areas during the year, and he certainly wouldn't do it for just 2L.


IMHO, the CON bonus was intended for resisting poisons and diseases, not to resist wounds (HP loss, including Major Wounds). The operative word is roll:
"+1d6 to the patient’s CON roll"
You don't roll CON to resist wounds or Major Wounds. You roll CON whilst inhaling smoke or water, or whilst poisoned or ill.

As for sharing the herbalist, sure, but since the herbalist gives that +1d6 to one person with full attention (making those tinctures takes time), I'd say he gives +1d3 to two people, +1d2 to three people, and +1 to up to 6 people. You want more? Hire your own herbalist.

You could also make one roll and then divide the bonus among the patients. Example: you roll a +4 so 4 patients can each get a +1; or 2 get a +2 and the others get no bonus or one can get a +4 and the rest no bonus.

As Morien said I would only use the bonus when dealing with poison or sickness, not for wounds.

As Morien also stated the retainer is in employ of one person and needs to be there to give the bonus. If several knights live apart the healer needs to divide his attention among them and that will reduce his skill, as he is more on the road than at the bed of the patient.

One thing you might consider - having a "team" of chirurgeons serving the group.
Let us say that you have 6 PKs. They have hired 4 chirurgeons, 1 for every 2 PKs, and one "chief chirurgeon" with a higher skill who can aid the more severely wounded people. This would work somewhat like the "Chief Steward" concept that was available when people had multiple manors.

A manor for killing Gorlois? When I defeated him in single combat, on foot, then proceeded to defeat the notoable knights defending him, all I got was a promotion into Uther's personal guard as a sergeant. You must be a very generous GM! Is that a typical reward?

So, because of the wording of adding to the CON roll, if a PK has taken a wound and needs to roll for unconsciousness the buff of the herbalist would apply to stay conscious but not for the actual unconscious threshold of 1/4 of the base HP? I also feel 2L is a hefty price to pay for an NPC which gives a passive buff to not being poisoned or diseased, which doesn't seem to play a very big role in the game to begin with.

I can concede that the Herbalist would have his or her attention split, and so the buff to a party would be divided dramatically. I can't see how the bookkeeping of making a roll and dividing it would work as Cornelius recommended since it's a random 1-6 and a roll of 1 would mean all PC's get a +.166 to their CON rolls. One thing I would do is, if there was a "shared" herbalist, perhaps levy an extra 1L cost per extra person being treated to reflect the added herbs and materials that person requires to get the buff? I picture some of that upkeep as a cost for the herbs and what-not needed to get healthier.

In the case of the party Chuirgeon, the Chuirgeon in question stays at one location near Salisbury practicing his singing and if someone needs Chuirgeory they have to stay at that hall. To be honset I feel the situation is better represented by the Hospital improvement in BotM. In our case the Chuirgeon is operating out of a hall which becomes an ad hoc hospital when several of us are messed up. In BotM a hospital has an upkeep of 4. Sir Uk's recommendation of 4 chiurgeons would cost double that. I could see paying the cost of a hospital for upkeep. 4L would be for the main doc plus a few attendants.

A manor for killing Gorlois? When I defeated him in single combat, on foot, then proceeded to defeat the notoable knights defending him, all I got was a promotion into Uther's personal guard as a sergeant. You must be a very generous GM! Is that a typical reward?

I thought I read somewhere the suggested reward for such a major and glorious kill was to award the PK with an entire estate. being assigned to Uther's guard seems kind of lame in the big scheme of things.

I thought I read somewhere the suggested reward for such a major and glorious kill was to award the PK with an entire estate. being assigned to Uther's guard seems kind of lame in the big scheme of things.


You did. Book of Estate, p. 18. The sidebar clear states killing Gorlois is worthy of a "promotion." In this context, "promotion" clearly refers to the awarding of an estate (it's what the whole book is about). Since that book was published, others have argued against this, but if ridding King Uther of one of the biggest thorns in his side is not estate-worthy I don't know what is.


T.

I would say it depends upon the time period in which you are playing and the style of the gamemaster. Pre-Ambrosius, it might be an elevation to the leader's inner circle as manors do not grow on trees. Ambrosius/Uther, it might be a manor, but then again it might not. manors are somewhat scarce but are slowly growing in number. In Arthur's, it might be an estate. And again, what type of manor/estate is being given? An earthly wall and wood, stone bailey and motte, a glorious four tower with moat one-of-a-kind for its time period?

BobS.

A manor for killing Gorlois? When I defeated him in single combat, on foot, then proceeded to defeat the notoable knights defending him, all I got was a promotion into Uther's personal guard as a sergeant. You must be a very generous GM! Is that a typical reward?

Even a manor is not that generous, really, but if you have Gorlois HATING Uther's Knights with a Passion, defended by Knights HATING Uther's Knights with a passion and killing him, I'd say hefty rewards are in order. Besides, the King can always reward someone with an Estate on a whim. The guy is between Uther and Ygraine, he's a major thorn, he's a Duke, he constantly defies Uther's orders. I'd say a manor is a nice enough reward, perhaps two, or a £30 Estate which is, really, 3 manors into one.

I gave a PK a 100£ minor barony for slaying Gorlois in my latest game. I planned it to be higher income/power than is typical but even in a normal one I'd hand out at least 50£ for it. Gorlois' and his guards can easily kill all the PKs if the dice don't favor them. And as Taliesin says, if killing the single largest thorn in Uther's side isn't worth a large reward then what is?

Especially when it is one of the knight's who brought him Excalibur. Men like that are too valuable to be impecunious toward.

I find that killing Gorlois depends a whole lot on how difficult the GM makes it.

The way it is described in GPC, assuming you survive the attacks from the random enemies in rounds 1 to 3, you will then get free strikes on Gorlois, whose sword is stuck in Madog. Given Gorlois' piss-poor HP, he is likely dead at this point, especially if there is more than one PK attacking him (they can all do so). Even if he isn't, he needs to rearm to a mace the next round (and I'd argue that this should be an extended melee, not a battle round, grr), and the GM might decide that his passion applied only to the Sword. The 5th round explicitly says that more knights might arrive to help the prince, allowing the PKs to gang up on Gorlois, who is a dead man at that point for sure. So at the easiest end of the spectrum, this is a cakewalk, with not a bodyguard in sight.

At the harder end, those bodyguards need to be taken care of first, and chances are that they are mounted and the PKs are not. Hence, it will be more dangerous. Also, in my campaigns, I run this as extended melee, not as battle rounds, which means that the PKs can't just survive a battle round and then attack the duke. No, they will need to defeat the bodyguards first. Also, I make Gorlois hit Madog down as soon as one of the PKs has dropped his foe, allowing that PK and that PK alone to advance against Gorlois, who spots the danger and starts rearming; no free attack, although +5/-5 combined action cancels the mounted/unmounted advantage. Also, the bodyguards, protecting their duke, would get to use their loyalty passions. So yeah, in my campaigns, killing Gorlois has been bloody, dangerous work, for which the killer got an estate (banneret knigh under old 4th edition rules, about £70) with each of the 'assistant PKs' getting a vassal manor inside the estate.

What I wouldn't do is to give each and every PK an estate. Rather, I'd fix the total value somewhere in the £50 - £100 region, and if more than one PK is worthy, then they are sharing in that bounty. So for instance, if 5 PKs jump Gorlois and take him down, one £10 manor per knight sounds about right. If it is one guy taking Gorlois down, then he gets the whole £50 estate for himself. Double if I am feeling generous or I thought that the fight was hard enough to be worth it.

In doubt, roll Uther's Generous trait. Who knows? He might roll a critical. I know I've done that in the past with NPC traits and the story veered in some unpredictable direction.

I'm not advocating giving Estates to every PK offhandedly. It all depends on a myriad of other factors (group dynamics, how the story is progressing, the difficulty of said feat, etc.) but I don't really think it 'breaks' the game to hand over a few manors to the party or even an Estate to one of them. More story hooks, more responsabilities, etc. And GM intuition come a lot into it.

Let's suppose, for one moment, that, as described in GPC, Gorlois' sword is stuck in Madoc. The PK rush in. They have to go through several veteran knights inspired by their Loyalty (Lord). I would rule this to be an automatic success just to make for a tough fight (we don't want someone missing a roll and fighting at -5). Those should be pretty tough guards. Run a few rounds (like a Skirmish, if you don't have Book of Battle). At the end of "skirmish" rounds, they'll have a go at Gorlois who, at this point, is wielding a Mace and, low on HP but high on skill - Hate (Uther's Knights).

Then, reward them. I wouldn't award an Estate to each PK and I am a Generous GM. Some manors, perhaps ONE Estate for a PK if he did really well (he fought a number of knights, helped others fight a number of knights and killed Gorlois).

FYI, the battle Tempest was discussing was epic for our Jute in question. He defeated the first bodyguard, on foot, then charged towards Madoc, his lord, still on foot and alone through a hail of arrows, crit on Glorois for the kill, then turned to defeat 2 more of his charging bodyguards on horses before the rest of the party got there. He was made a Seargent at Arms, but the Jute was kicked out of Court for being Wodanic the very next year.

To each their own, but had that happened in our campaign, I (as the GM) would have been sure to reward the Jute quite significantly. Uther appreciates strength, valor and prowess in combat, and is not particularly religious. If the Jute is loyal to the King (and apparently he was towards Madoc), that little thing about Wotanism need not to come up... :)

Interestingly there was a Wotanic knight, a Jute even, in the party in my OP. He didn't make it to the showdown with Gorlois though, he was tied up hacking apart some common knights with his great axe. The knight who slew Gorlois after several intense rounds was a pious Roman with DMG 4d6.