View Full Version : Directed Traits check
dwarinpt
07-08-2017, 06:17 PM
This is a two-part question:
1) I noticed the Directed Traits have a small check square in front. How does one increase these? Since they modify Traits rolls, I assume it's when you roll the Trait in a specific situation where the Directed Trait comes into play. Am I assuming this correctly?
2) PK has Trusting 14 / Suspicious 6. In a specific situation, he must act for or against an NPC for which he has a Trait of [Mistrust +3]. How does the Directed Trait come into play exactly? Since it adds to the rolls, doesn't it make less likely to roll under a specific trait?
jmberry
07-08-2017, 07:03 PM
For the second part, that's not how I've been interpreting directed traits. I've viewed them as flat out changing the traits in question - in the case you mention, the PK would be changed to having Trusting 11/Suspicious 9 for that NPC only.
dwarinpt
07-08-2017, 08:29 PM
For the second part, that's not how I've been interpreting directed traits. I've viewed them as flat out changing the traits in question - in the case you mention, the PK would be changed to having Trusting 11/Suspicious 9 for that NPC only.
My take was exactly as yours but I was re-reading the rules and it states the Directed Traits change rolls, not the Traits themselves. I always applied the Directed Traits to the Traits themselves.
Hzark10
07-09-2017, 01:24 PM
However, this does bring up an important point. If you change the roll, then the directed trait cannot become notable if it isn't already. That affects glory. It also will affect the opposing trait because now it doesn't change in response.
Or, am I now misinterpreting this?
dwarinpt
07-09-2017, 02:47 PM
However, this does bring up an important point. If you change the roll, then the directed trait cannot become notable if it isn't already. That affects glory. It also will affect the opposing trait because now it doesn't change in response.
Or, am I now misinterpreting this?
It's my interpretation, too. If Sir Trustalot has Trusting 16 / Suspicious 4 with Mistrust [Merlin +6], does that become Trusting 10 / Suspicious 10 when dealing with Merlin? And do we roll or just let the player roleplay the interaction because neither Trait is now famous?
Morien
07-09-2017, 04:02 PM
It's my interpretation, too. If Sir Trustalot has Trusting 16 / Suspicious 4 with Mistrust [Merlin +6], does that become Trusting 10 / Suspicious 10 when dealing with Merlin? And do we roll or just let the player roleplay the interaction because neither Trait is now famous?
Here is how I GM it:
1) Directed traits are situational, and as such do not modify the Trait for Annual Glory purposes.
2) When the situation arises, I apply the Directed Trait modifier to the Trait, and then judge the situation based on the modified value. In this case, Sir Trustalot knows better than trust Merlin blindly, so he is acting as if his Trusting is 10. In other words, the Player can decide or roll as he pleases. Hence, Directed Trait comes into play via RP and player's choice: Sir Trustalot is not that Trusting around Merlin after all!
3) The rule in the rulebook that it only modifies a Trait roll is the result of poor wording and editing, IMHO. As such, I ignore it as a mistake.
(You are welcome to GM it differently in your game, and use it as a dice roll modifier. In which case, a) you never get Annual Glory since they don't modify the Trait, and b) Sir Trustalot has to roll vs. Trusting 16 with +6 modifier to the roll. Hence making it more likely to fail in that roll and hence be able to act with suspicion. But I do feel that my method, above, is superior.)
EDIT:
I forgot to comment on the increasing the Directed Trait. I think I would handle check by rolling against the modified Trait value, and if over, then increase the Directed Trait by 1. However, I would probably also tweak the Directed Trait based on what is going on. For example, is Sir Trustalot chooses to trust Merlin and Merlin proves to be trustworthy (in Sir Trustalot's, or his player's, opinion) then the Mistrust is reduced. However, if Merlin proves to be a double-faced schemer, then the Mistrust goes up.
mandrill_one
07-10-2017, 10:24 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but modifiers should NEVER apply to rolls and ALWAYS to statistic scores in KAP. The only, obvious exception being the bonus applied TO THE ROLL when a statistics is over 20.
In fact, if you add a bonus to the roll you don't increase the chance of success, you DECREASE it; and introduce the paradoxical chance of transforming a success into a failure with a bonus!
E.g., base Trait score 14.
Without bonus: success chance 70% (1-14).
With +5 bonus TO THE ROLL: success chance 45% (unmodified 1-9, which become 6-14); any roll of 10-14, normally a success, becomes 15-19, a failure.
I agree that wording in the rulebook could be better, since it is "bonus to the Xxxx Trait roll" in several instances. However, all of these instances should be read as "increase the chance of success of the roll by +5, applying the bonus to the relevant statistic".
Morien
07-10-2017, 11:59 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but modifiers should NEVER apply to rolls and ALWAYS to statistic scores in KAP. The only, obvious exception being the bonus applied TO THE ROLL when a statistics is over 20.
You are absolutely correct in that. :)
(Of course not including rolls which are NOT statistic rolls, such as childbirh and survival rolls in Winter Phase.)
Greg Stafford
07-12-2017, 10:16 PM
This is a two-part question:
1) I noticed the Directed Traits have a small check square in front. How does one increase these? Since they modify Traits rolls, I assume it's when you roll the Trait in a specific situation where the Directed Trait comes into play. Am I assuming this correctly?
Actually, I've never done that!
But I think it would be good! So whenever the Trait is checked and that particular Directed Trait was the one invoked, I'd check ti too. Increasing in the value would be as usual.
2) PK has Trusting 14 / Suspicious 6. In a specific situation, he must act for or against an NPC for which he has a Trait of [Mistrust +3]. How does the Directed Trait come into play exactly? Since it adds to the rolls, doesn't it make less likely to roll under a specific trait?
Morien is right
It does not add to the roll, but to the Trait
dwarinpt
07-12-2017, 11:20 PM
Actually, I've never done that!
But I think it would be good! So whenever the Trait is checked and that particular Directed Trait was the one invoked, I'd check ti too. Increasing in the value would be as usual.
I would suggest that whenever a particular Directed Trait was used successfully, the "main" Trait would not go up but only the Directed Trait. For example, someone with Suspicious of Merlin [+6] would be suspicious of Merlin but not necessarily suspicious of anyone else. He could still be a highly Trusting person but suspicious of Merlin ONLY. So he could, for instance, be Trusting 14 / Suspicious 6, but Trusting 8 / Suspicious 12 when interacting with Merlin. If the Directed Trait goes up +1, he would still be Trusting 14 / Suspicious 6 around everyone else BUT Merlin with Trusting 7 / Suspicious 13. I have to test this.
Morien
07-13-2017, 10:55 AM
I would suggest that whenever a particular Directed Trait was used successfully, the "main" Trait would not go up but only the Directed Trait.
Agreed. Of course it is the GM's call, but in my mind, it is Mistrust (Merlin) that is successful in this case, rather than Suspicious in itself.
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