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corruptjackyl
07-17-2017, 08:55 PM
I know that most battles at this time were raiders landing their boats and then skirmishing inland. Our games tend to get a bit off the typical scale of things though, so I was wondering, how would you handle a naval battle. Would the Battle skill cover naval tactics as well as land tactics?

Mr.47
07-18-2017, 04:05 AM
I imagine you'd need battle to determine *where* to maneuver your ship and boating to determine *how* to maneuver your ship. I imagine naval battles themselves would primarily a series of boarding actions, so I'd first determine the maneuvering of the player's side vs. the enemy's side, and then treat the battle as a series of small-ish land skirmishes, and the end of which a ship changes hands from one side to another.

Morien
07-18-2017, 08:02 AM
The usual chain of command was that the commanding knight aboard the ship told the sailing master where to go, and then it was the sailing master's job to get the ship there. And then, like Mr.47 said, the issue was dealt with boarding actions.

That being said, I have been tempted to have a following houserule:
(Battle + Boating)/2 = Naval Tactics
(Battle + Horsemanship)/2 = Land (battlefield) Tactics
(Battle + Stewardship)/2 = Siege Tactics

That way, it helps to have an admiral who actually knows how the ships work, rather than a landlubber who insists on trying to sail against the wind. :P

Hzark10
07-18-2017, 03:22 PM
I like how Morien has suggested a very simple resolution. I would even go so far as say this is a very simple way to combine skills. Now whether you want to make these three actual skills or not, I will leave to those with a higher paygrade, where tactics is the new name as he suggests.

Mr. 47 is also correct, but with this I would have difficulty in saying a general who has fought nothing but land battles, knows how to maneuver ships, where to place them, how to do small tactical maneuvers like crossing the T, ships in a line, etc. Most Cymric fighters of this time period would want nothing to do with water. Now, Saxons, Picts, Irish, and others who have extensive experience with naval raiding would not be as handicapped, but as stated, most raids involve getting the ships to land, and then raid inland.

Morien
07-18-2017, 05:24 PM
how to do small tactical maneuvers like crossing the T, ships in a line, etc.

Just to quickly point out that those are maneuvers for the Age of Sail with broadside cannonades. In the age of galleys and rams (Classical Greece and Rome), both of those maneuvers expose your weak flanks to the enemy rams. :)

Viking fleet engagements (probably closest thing to what you would historically have in Dark Ages Britain, or Uther's time) were boarding actions. Here is a nice summary I managed to stumble upon:
https://weaponsandwarfare.com/2015/10/04/sea-battles-of-the-vikings/

In Middle Ages, fighting was usually between cogs and boarding, with the forecastle and aftcastle being tower-like constructions bristling with archers. The high sides of the cogs combined with the towers made them almost moving fortresses against smaller ships, like longships. (This could be Arthur's fleet around Conquest, not that it fought naval battles.)

Hzark10
07-19-2017, 01:11 AM
You are of course correct that those maneuvers were from the age of sail. I don't know what would be equivalent. I was using them for examples only.

Craiger89
07-22-2017, 10:20 PM
I know that most battles at this time were raiders landing their boats and then skirmishing inland. Our games tend to get a bit off the typical scale of things though, so I was wondering, how would you handle a naval battle. Would the Battle skill cover naval tactics as well as land tactics?

Hi Corruptjackyl! We miss Sir Bledri over on Lefora! :)

I might make this even simpler by just replacing the commander's opening battle roll with boating, and apply the tactics modifier accordingly. (So a commander who gets a crit would have directed the ship into an advantageous position, giving his unit +5 to combat skills for the first round, and so on.) Then I would handle the subsequent rounds with battle, since after boarding they will most likely be fighting hand-to-hand.

So, to Morien's and Hzark's point, you wouldn't want some land loving knight who knows nothing about ships telling you where best to position it to ram or board another ship. :)

Optionally, you might have a round before boarding, with archers sending volleys as the ships close with each other. (would depend on whether or not there are archers on the ship, i suppose. Was this a common practice for naval fighting in this time period?)

Greg Stafford
07-24-2017, 09:03 AM
Optionally, you might have a round before boarding, with archers sending volleys as the ships close with each other. (would depend on whether or not there are archers on the ship, i suppose. Was this a common practice for naval fighting in this time period?)
Yes, absolutely
Sometimes they would mount arbalests and possibly other siege engines on the forecastle and aftercastle.
Also, the gunwales of cogs were much higher than those of "longships" (that is, they were not like Viking longships, because it appears that the Saxon ships had no sails (!))
The height would have made it difficult for the Saxons to board